[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":-1},["ShallowReactive",2],{"\u002Fpodcast\u002Fnews-20-26-mythos-junie-ai-week":3},{"podcast":4,"pickOfTheDayCount":66,"speakerCount":67,"relatedPodcasts":68,"transcript":69},{"id":5,"published_on":6,"type":7,"number":8,"title":9,"slug":10,"description":11,"transcript":12,"audio_url":13,"apple_url":12,"google_url":12,"spotify_url":12,"youtube_url":14,"cover_image":15,"banner_image":12,"speakers":27,"members":28,"picks_of_the_day":62,"tags":63,"tagsPrepared":64,"speakersPrepared":65},"4c13e724-eb07-4bb7-b516-25b6c1482736","2026-05-14T04:00:00.000Z","news","20\u002F26","Mythos \u002F\u002F Junie \u002F\u002F AI-Week","news-20-26-mythos-junie-ai-week","\u003Cp>Aufruf: Wir suchen Dozent:innen oder Uni-Angehörige, die mit uns über die Zukunft der Informatikausbildung in Zeiten von KI sprechen möchten. Wenn ihr jemanden kennt oder selbst dazugehört, schreibt uns eine \u003Ca href=\"mailto:podcast@programmier.bar\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">E-Mail an podcast@programmier.bar\u003C\u002Fa>!\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Habt ihr unsere Videopodcasts schon gesehen? Unsere News-Folgen gibt es auf \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.youtube.com\u002F@programmierbar\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">YouTube\u003C\u002Fa> und \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fopen.spotify.com\u002Fshow\u002F0ik0sXv9paTQCeThcOLCCJ\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Spotify\u003C\u002Fa> als Video.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Möchtet ihr auf der programmier.con 2026 (25.-26. November 2026) einen Talk halten? Dann meldet euch jetzt unter: \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fcfp.programmier.bar\u002F\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">cfp.programmier.bar\u003C\u002Fa>\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Nachdem die ersten Fachleute das neue Mythos Model von Anthropic testen konnten, zeigt sich ein differenziertes Bild: Mythos glänzt zwar beim Finden komplexer Exploit-Ketten, doch im direkten Benchmark mit GPT-5.5 \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Farstechnica.com\u002Fai\u002F2026\u002F05\u002Famid-mythos-hyped-cybersecurity-prowess-researchers-find-gpt-5-5-is-just-as-good\u002F\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">scheint das Rennen knapper zu sein als gedacht\u003C\u002Fa>. Besonders beeindruckend ist der \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fhacks.mozilla.org\u002F2026\u002F05\u002Fbehind-the-scenes-hardening-firefox\u002F\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Einblick der Firefox-Engineers\u003C\u002Fa>, die beschreiben, wie sie Mythos in ein eigenes Harness integriert haben. \u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Wer gerne am Bleeding Edge der Entwicklung unterwegs ist, sollte sich \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fjunie.jetbrains.com\u002Fdocs\u002Fjunie-cli-eap.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Junie CLI von JetBrains\u003C\u002Fa> anschauen. Jan hat sich mit dem Team unterhalten und erfahren, dass neue Agent-Features dort oft zuerst landen, bevor sie den Weg in die grafische Oberfläche der IDEs finden. Das CLI dient als Testumgebung für neue Skills und bietet eine direktere Interaktion mit dem Coding-Agenten.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Außerdem geben wir euch einen exklusiven Einblick in die vierte AI-Week bei Lotum. Wir haben das Tagesgeschäft pausiert, um uns voll auf KI-Tools zu konzentrieren. Dennis erklärt, warum und wie wir eine solche AI-Week abhalten und was sich für unsere Teams daraus ergibt.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Zum Abschluss haben wir noch einen Tipp für Geschichtsinteressierte: Die neue \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.youtube.com\u002Fwatch?v=0Gb1z-2SjHY\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">CultRepo-Dokumentation über Spring und Java \u003C\u002Fa>beleuchtet die Geschichte und Menschen hinter dem Framework, das unsere heutige Entwicklungswelt maßgeblich geprägt hat.\u003C\u002Fp>",null,"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.buzzsprout.com\u002F176239\u002Fepisodes\u002F19170119-news-20-26-mythos-junie-ai-week.mp3","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.youtube.com\u002Fwatch?v=tGMLN3h3Mfk",{"id":16,"title":17,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":18,"filename_download":19,"metadata":20,"type":21,"filesize":22,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":23,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":24,"uploaded_on":25,"folder":12,"width":26,"height":26,"charset":12,"duration":12},"4dce48fe-95e9-47cf-950b-befe14d8d5a8","News Asset 20","4dce48fe-95e9-47cf-950b-befe14d8d5a8.jpg","News-Asset 20.jpg",{},"image\u002Fjpeg","1263011","2026-05-13T08:52:39.260Z","11a655b6-bcfc-4c6c-a13c-68189e38edb9","2026-05-13T08:52:39.255Z",1500,[],[29,47],{"member":30},{"id":31,"first_name":32,"last_name":33,"occupation":34,"description":35,"normal_image":36},"47099351-508c-44d9-a2a2-855181c72ee8","Jan Gregor","Emge-Triebel","\u002F\u002F programmier.bar Tech Community Lead \u002F\u002F Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Jan ist ein echter Technik-Fan mit einer facettenreichen Karriere, die sich über Web-, Mobile-App-Entwicklung und DevOps erstreckt. Dank seiner vielfältigen Rollen – vom Entwickler über den Teamleiter bis hin zum Vice President Development – verfügt Jan über einen großen Erfahrungsschatz in der Softwareentwicklung und Developer Advocacy.\u003Cbr>Seine Leidenschaften jenseits der Technik reichen von Tauchgängen an exotischen Orten über das Eintauchen in digitale wie analoge Spiele bis hin zum Abtauchen in gelungene Plot-Twists in Büchern und Filmen.\u003C\u002Fp>",{"id":37,"title":38,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":39,"filename_download":40,"metadata":41,"type":21,"filesize":42,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":43,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":44,"uploaded_on":45,"folder":12,"width":46,"height":46,"charset":12,"duration":12},"ef7c0ccb-a2b5-48a0-8261-c8bbfffd917b","Jan CD","ef7c0ccb-a2b5-48a0-8261-c8bbfffd917b.jpg","Jan_CD.jpg",{},"649400","2024-07-26T09:26:17.846Z","e97179d2-51b3-4deb-828f-9524091441f5","2024-07-26T09:26:17.710Z",1024,{"member":48},{"id":49,"first_name":50,"last_name":51,"occupation":52,"description":53,"normal_image":54},"958f6624-c721-4ff9-8a97-69148f540945","Dennis","Becker","\u002F\u002F Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Dennis ist Head of Development bei Lotum und kümmert sich liebevoll um die Entwickler:innen und deren Weiterentwicklung. \u003Cbr>In den Podcastfolgen übernimmt Dennis gerne die Moderation. Beim täglichen Tischtennis ist er immer am Start und seit wenigen Jahren passionierter Kitesurfer. Mittlerweile ist er auch Vibe Coder mit Leidenschaft und überzeugt, dass seine Kolleg:innen AI unterschätzen. \u003C\u002Fp>",{"id":55,"title":56,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":57,"filename_download":58,"metadata":12,"type":21,"filesize":59,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":60,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":12,"uploaded_on":61,"folder":12,"width":46,"height":46,"charset":12,"duration":12},"7a9fd72e-16b1-4283-8c1f-348a3e7986f9","Dennis Becker","7a9fd72e-16b1-4283-8c1f-348a3e7986f9.jpg","dennis_becker_normal_01e352e682.jpg","45729","2022-01-16T14:26:35.196Z","2021-12-30T14:16:28.647Z",[],[],[],[],482,204,[],{"id":70,"service":71,"supported_features":72,"speakers":75,"raw_response":81},"60f9a0e2-1057-4955-9b10-2e1c61e0dcea","deepgram",[73,74],"timestamps","diarization",[76,79],{"identifier":77,"name":78},"0","Jan",{"identifier":80,"name":50},"1",{"metadata":82,"results":96},{"transaction_key":83,"request_id":84,"sha256":85,"created":86,"duration":87,"channels":88,"models":89,"model_info":91},"deprecated","019e2127-8c9e-7a33-b871-cc7d635754e3","6772cf62865eda623a38a77646960f3628ad723816f07fbf980d3c68b1326bb6","2026-05-13T11:45:04.145Z",2461.5444,1,[90],"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3",{"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3":92},{"name":93,"version":94,"arch":95},"2-general-nova","2024-05-09.3071","nova-2",{"channels":97,"utterances":21699},[98],{"alternatives":99},[100],{"transcript":101,"confidence":102,"words":103,"paragraphs":20527},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu 1 neuen Newsausgabe der Programmierbar, heute in Kalenderwoche 20, 26 und heute in 1 sehr, fast hätte ich klein gesagt, aber in 1 sehr effizienten Besetzung vielleicht heute im Studio. Für euch hier vorm Mikro wie immer einmal der Jan und mir gegenüber im virtuellen Studio sitzt der Dennis Becker. Hallo. Moin moin Dennis. Ja, Dave Wann hast Du eigentlich eigentlich aufgehört, deinen Nachnamen zu nennen? Jetzt fühlt man sich immer so so komisch. Du hast das einfach ohne Absprache, wirst Du wieder auf deinen Vornamen gesprungen? Ich hab, also ich hab das, glaub ich, zweimal gemacht, das kam mir komisch vor und dann dachte ich, ich mach das nicht. Okay. Ihr habt ihr habt alle so so kurze Namen. Bei euch klingt das halt, weißt Du, wenn eine Garelt Mogre oder das, das klingt halt so prägnant, aber wenn Du halt 2 Vornamen und 2 Nachnamen hast, da heißt der halbe Podcast rum, bis ich fertig bin. Okay. Sehr gut. Das irgendwie, ja. Weiß nicht. Also. Na gut. Wenn wenn da draußen die Leute wissen wollen, wie ich heiße, sie könnt mich gerne fragen, sie könnt's gerne auf der Webseite nachlesen oder wenn sie finden, ich sollte es jedes Mal sagen, können sie mir gerne böse E-Mails schreiben und vielleicht passen wir das dann noch an. Mhm. Aber wenn Du schon das Spotlight so auf mich gerichtet hast, weißt Du, warum das heute eine besondere Folge für mich ist? Nein. Das ist die Nein. X-te Folge für dich. Das, nah dran. Wäre sone Chance? Du hast Jahresjubiläum. Das, nein. Es ist so, dass ich quasi die Hälfte der programmierbar Folgen jetzt miterlebt hab. Also also miterlebt ist, ist in deiner Zeit entstanden oder Ja, also ich war ja natürlich nicht in der Hälfte der Folgen dabei, so. Das das wär, glaub ich, 'n bisschen bisschen krass noch. Aber zumindest, genau, hab ich die Hälfte der programmierbarfolgen miterlebt und den den Prozess dahinter begleitet und so. Und das hat mich son bisschen überrascht. Ich hab das neulich wegen was anderem nachgeguckt, weil die Programmier ist ja schon 'n paar Jährchen älter. Mhm. Und dass wir's quasi geschafft haben, aber in den letzten zweieinhalb, bald 3 Jahren quasi die Hälfte der Folgen aus den gesamten 8 Jahren und 'n paar Zerquetschten irgendwie zu produzieren, das fand ich schon, ist schon cool. Ja. Anyway, wir wollen ja eigentlich nicht hier über mich reden, sondern reden wir über dich, Dennis, weil ich bin ja nicht da am einundzwanzigsten, aber Du bist da und am einundzwanzigsten Mai passiert was in Bad Nauheim? Das beste Meet-up aller Zeiten. So wie jedes Mal eigentlich. So wie jedes Mal hat wieder lädt wieder ein. Ja, kommt gerne vorbei zum World Accessibility Day, den wir auch in der Programmierbar ein Thema widmen. Und zwar wird Raulden uns etwas erzählen. Jetzt erwischen wir natürlich aufm kalt Fuß, sich den genauen Titel nicht aufm Schirm, aber den kannst Du bestimmt jetzt nachreichen. Titel ist, glaub ich, auch an der Stelle zweitrangig. Es geht Accessibility. Es geht darum, wie man das selber anwendet. Es geht darum, dass es in bestehenden Anwendungen auch nicht immer son Problem ist. Und so wie er mir den Talk gepitcht hat, wird das, glaub ich, auch einfach superlustig. Also, ich glaub, manchmal haben die Leute son bisschen Sorge vor sonem vielleicht etwas trockenen Thema, aber er hat da 'n echt cooles Format gefunden und ich, es tut mir leid, dass ich da bin, aber ich bin was er erzählt. Ja, ob es dann so, na, ich will nicht zu viel teasern. Okay, ja, lassen wir's lassen wir's also, ich hab nämlich auch mit ihm kurz gesprochen. Ja, am nächsten Donnerstag wie immer, Getränke und Essen for free und kommt gerne vorbei, wenn dir im Rhein Main Gebiet sitzt. Wunderbar. Und damit stützen wir uns direkt in die Themen, die wir gar nicht aufgefüllt haben, weil wir direkt an Namen uns aufgehängt haben. Sorry. Aber wir wollen heute einmal sprechen über und, was es da seit dem letzten Update so gab. Und wir sprechen ein bisschen über AI und Development allgemein, aber da verraten wir vielleicht noch nicht so viel dazu. Ich hab mich ein bisschen eingelesen, ihr hattet ja in den letzten oder vorletzten, vorletzten eigenes müsste es, glaub ich, schon gewesen sein, ne, auch über Methhos gesprochen. Und da war's, glaub ich, noch relativ neu und diese Ankündigung, so, na ja, wir halten das für so ein sehr potentes Modell und wir quasi machen's erst mal 1 sehr kleinen Gruppe von Firmenentwicklerinnen, wie auch immer zugänglich, weil das halt auch in den falschen Händen viel Schaden anrichten kann. Ja. So und seitdem haben natürlich 'n paar von diesen Leuten, die das Privileg hatten, damit arbeiten zu können zu dürfen, so ihre Erfahrungen geteilt und ihre Einschätzung. Und das ist, glaub ich, das viel interessantere, weil ihr habt ja auch in der Folge son bisschen darüber diskutiert, wie viel Marketing und Hype das halt am Ende so ist, dieses Vorgehen, das nur son paar Leuten zu geben und so weiter. Oder oder wie berechtigt das am Ende dann war. Und vielleicht, was sich gezeigt hat, ist, also es ist schon deutlich, deutlich besser als das, was so vorher da war. Das ist, glaub ich, schon der Tenor von all den, das, was so vorher da war. Das ist, glaub ich, schon der Tenor von all den Blogbeiträgen und Assets, die ich darüber gefunden hab. Alle Leute, die das probiert haben, haben gesagt, ja, es ist schon cooler, weil es a weniger falsch positive Treffer liefert und weil es b quasi schafft, längere Exploits zu finden, also Exploits zu finden, die quasi nur funktionieren, weil Du mehrere hintereinander hängst. Und nicht einfach nur, weil Du jetzt eine Stelle im Code identifiziert hast, wo 'n Overflow Error drin ist oder 'n Escape hier oder so was da, sondern halt schaffen okay zu sagen, okay, wenn Du diese 5 Sachen hintereinander hängst, dann weiß ich nicht, dass Du auf einmal oder so was. Was allerdings auch rausgekommen ist, nachdem ja mittlerweile auch GPT 5 5 veröffentlicht wurde, ist, dass die Leute, die das son bisschen gebanchmarket haben, gesagt haben, na ja, auch GPT 5 5 ist ähnlich gut darin, diese Art von Exploits zu finden und diese Art von falsch positiven Treffern eben auszuschließen, ja. Und das lässt halt am Ende auch son bisschen an dieser ganzen Marketiennummer von Intropic zweifeln, weil der ganze Hype Mytheus vielleicht gar nicht darin begründet ist, dass das als Modell jetzt so bahnbrechend anders ist, sondern dass einfach der allgemeine Model Fortschritt, der halt eben auch in GPT 5 5 ist, ne, mit Länge an Superwaise laufen zu lassen, irgendwie akkurater mit dem Kontextfenster umzugehen und so was alles, dass das halt einfach maßgeblich dazu beiträgt, auch eben in diesem Security Bereich besser zu sein, so. Von daher schauen wir mal. Es gab einen Beitrag von sonem britischen Security Institut, die tatsächlich Metaphs und GPT 5 5 gegeneinander benchmark haben und da quasi zu 'nem, ja, ich sag mal, zu 'nem Unentschieden gekommen sind. Das eine war manchen Sachen besser als andere in anderen, aber es war jetzt keiner irgendwie bahnbrechend weiter als der andere. Das verlinken wir auch mal hier in den Shownotes, kann man sich mal anschauen. Und es gab einen sehr interessanten Artikel von Firefox Engineer, der son bisschen beschrieben hat, wie sie das denn genutzt haben. Und zum einen war gesagt, na gut, das hat uns geholfen, megaviele irgendwie Security Lücken zu schließen und auch gar nicht so dieses Problem gehabt von, ja, wir hatten da, glaub ich, vor 'nem Jahr oder so mal drüber gesprochen, diese ganze AI SLOP Pull Request, die so über Open Source Projekte irgendwie herfallen, weil Leute halt glauben, irgendwie 'n Pull Request aufmachen zu müssen für irgendwas, was ihr Model ihnen gesagt hat, was da jetzt passieren muss. Sondern auch da die falsch positiven Treffer halt deutlich, deutlich reduzitter waren, sodass insgesamt die Nutzung von dem Model halt skalierbarer war, ja. Also es hilft Ihnen ja nichts, wenn Sie jetzt mit Mytheus irgendwie 500 bekommen, die Hälfte davon wegschmeißen müssen, weil sie nicht taugen und so weiter. Also das war schon ganz cool. Und was er aber auch beschrieben hat, war so, dass das Harness, was sie halt drumherum aufgesetzt haben und ehrlicherweise auch schon vorher aufgesetzt hatten. Und das ist, glaub ich, das Entscheidende, ja, weil die Leute irgendwie da draußen immer nur denken, aha, mythhers irgendwie als Modell und ich setz das irgendwie auf mein Projekt an und auf einmal find ich da superviele Schwachstellen oder kann superviele Schwachstellen gleich schließen, weil sie die Patches mitliefern. Und er beschreibt im Prinzip in dem Blogpost, den wir auch noch mal verlinken, so wie sieht dieser CICD Prozess bei denen eigentlich aus? Wie nutzen Sie tatsächlich mehrere unterschiedliche Modelle, das eine zu nutzen, die Schwachstellen zu finden? Das andere, die Schwachstelle und den Fix eben validieren zu lassen dafür? Und wenn die Validierung fehlschlägt, dann verwerfen Sie das wieder. Wie machen Sie die Einschätzung und die Priorisierung, die Triage von diesen ganzen Pullrequests, die da rausfallen? Und wie haben Sie dieses neue Requirement eben umgesetzt, dass Mithhouse nicht nur eine Schwachstelle liefern muss, sondern auch gleichzeitig den Proof of Concept dafür mitliefern muss. Also zu jeder Schwachstelle, die das findet, muss es quasi einen funktionierenden Exploit mitliefern. Ansonsten sagen sie halt, ist das halt son theoretischer Fix, der bestimmt irgendwie 'n Wert hat, aber für sie halt nicht Priorität hat so, ja? Und das fand ich eigentlich ganz cool. Sie haben son bisschen beschrieben, wie sie dieses Harnes drumherum halt eigentlich schon aufgesetzt hatten, weil sie das genommen haben, auch mit GPT 4 schon zu experimentieren und so was. Und dass jetzt eben der Teil in die das Zahnrad in dieser ganzen Maschine war, was ihn erlaubt hat, misst das halt wirklich effizient einzusetzen, ja. Und das fand ich 'n cooles Beispiel, zu sagen, so das das Model ist wichtig und das liefert eine wichtige, aber Du musst dir halt für dein Projekt schon so sehr gezielt Gedanken darum machen, ne, was ist halt dein Harness? Was verlangst Du davon? Wo legst Du so das Benchmark an? Wie funktionieren deine Guardrails? Weil nur dann kannst Du halt wirklich viel damit machen. Und er meinte halt auch, jetzt haben sie halt 'n Set-up, was so gut funktioniert, dass sie halt im Prinzip in der Lage sind, jedes andere Modell da drauf zu werfen. Und Sie machen das auch regelmäßig und dann halt eben zu verstehen, okay, liefert jetzt, weiß nicht, ne, in Zukunft ein GPT 5 6 bessere Ergebnisse als ein Mythos. Und dann können Sie's halt relativ einfach austauschen. Aber am Ende ist für sie halt das mit das Entscheidende, damit die ganze Sache funktionieren kann. Das fand ich irgendwie. Ganz cool. Ja. Aber ich mein, am Ende ja trotzdem beeindruckend. Ich glaub, das hast Du, diesen Grafen hast Du eben nicht erwähnt, oder? In dieser Anzahl von Dingen, die ich fix habe. Nee, also, sie haben son bisschen aufgezeigt, wie viel Fixes und Lücken finden sie so damit. Und das waren so in den vergangenen Monaten vorher, weiß nicht so, 20, 30 pro Monat irgendwie. Und jetzt ist es halt damit irgendwie auf über 400 explodiert, von denen Sie ungefähr 300, glaub ich, diesen diesem Set-up irgendwie zuschreiben, was Sie wohl gefunden haben. Ja, also wie gesagt, es scheint scheint ja zu funktionieren. Ja, aber da da wunder mich, also son bisschen passt das halt nicht so hundertprozentig für mich zusammen. Also diese kritischen oder was kritischen Stimmen, aber die die sagen, ja, ist vielleicht gar nicht so doll oder keine Ahnung was und ist ist Kodex 5 5 nicht irgendwie ähnlich. Und dann hast Du aber dann einfach im Ergebnis 'n sehr populäres Produkt, was dann Methhers Zugriff hat und halt einfach ein x-Faches an Security und Bugs irgendwie löst und schließt. Also ich weiß nicht, ob sich das gegenseitig ausschließen muss. Vielleicht könnten könnten Sie dasselbe Ergebnis auch mit GPT 5 5 irgendwie liefern. Ich glaub, für Sie entscheidend tatsächlich, dass sie 'n Geheimnis haben und 'n skalierbaren Prozess, so. Und vielleicht haben sie Methhos zum Anstoß genommen, das halt mal alles so aufzusetzen und ordentlicher zu machen, ja. Ich glaube nicht, dass Du, wenn Du dir diesen Chart anguckst von 20 auf 400 hochgehen, weiß ich nicht, wenn wir jetzt einfach nur Metaphs an unsere Spiele dran lassen würden, ja, per se würde das nicht so viel finden. Du brauchst schon das Set-up so drumherum, was dir hilft, so das zu finden, das zu validieren, das zu kategorisieren, das schon auch wichtig. In der Menge und in der Effizienz dann auf jeden Fall, ja. Aber hm. Ich glaube schon, dass da noch gewisse, dass da 'n bisschen mehr Power drin ist als in den anderen Modellen, die wir bis jetzt auf den Markt frei verfügbar haben. Ja, und also an der Stelle, ohne da jetzt wieder ganz tief reinzugehen, sei auch noch mal an diesen Vergleich von diesem britischen Security Institut verwiesen. Mhm. Der halt auch son bisschen beschrieben haben, was mussten sie halt mit und was mussten sie mit GPT 5 5 machen, sie halt so dahin zu kriegen, ja? Und da ist schon, mit 5 5 musst Du 'n bisschen mehr noch noch tun, weil das halt nicht so fine tuned ist. Aber es gab ja auch, oh, das weiß wahrscheinlich besser als ich, es gab zumindest von GPT 5 4 ja auch mal son Security Variante. Ich weiß gar nicht, ob's die von 5 5 auch gibt, aber vielleicht wär das dann der passendere Vergleich am Ende des Tages, zu sagen, son Aber ähnlich Security fein geht also das Modell. Soweit ich weiß, ist Methis ja gar nicht auf den Security Bereich gefeintuned oder irgendwie darauf gemacht. Es ist eher, es ist allgemein und dadurch kann es auch die Security Lücken lösen. Also ich glaube gar nicht, dass es so die diesen Fokus hat. Ist eher so, es ist sehr und das ist das, wo wir das Problem sehen, dass es so ist, ist der Bereich Security und deswegen machen wir Marketing drum rum. Ja, ja. Was natürlich auch nirgendswo erwähnt wird, weil das wahrscheinlich auch einfach nicht Teil der Diskussion ist, die was diese ganzen Firmen mit den Tropic irgendwie haben oder zumindest nicht Teil der öffentlichen Diskussion ist, was kostet das halt am Ende des Tages, ne? Also das so in Relation zu setzen, wie viel mehr musst Du ausgeben, dieses Mehr an Leistung zu bekommen? Und ist das wirklich eine lineare Skalierung? Oder ist das halt exponentiell und deshalb vielleicht auch gar nicht rentabel im Einsatz? Außer halt Security, wo Du im Prinzip keinen keinen Preis dran machen kannst, so, ja. Ja. Und andererseits kannst Du sagen, ist das irgendwie alternativlos für die großen Anbieter, sich da zu wappnen und Weiß ich ja, genau. Weil Security halt keinen Preis hat, so. Du musst halt jeden Preis in Anführungszeichen verhindern, dass Du dass Du quasi Opfer von sonem Exploit wirst. Und dann ist es in Anführungszeichen egal, dass Mitheus in der Anwendung irgendwie zehnmal so viel kostet als vielleicht jetzt Cloud oder so was, weil Du halt nur dann diese Ergebnisse irgendwie bekommen kannst. Ja. In Anführungszeichen, weil man vielleicht noch schauen muss, wie das sich mit GPT verhält oder so. Aber ja, das ist vielleicht einfach Teil des Modells da. Ja, und ich kenn jetzt tatsächlich überhaupt gar nicht so die Finanzierung hinter Projekten wie Firefox oder anderen Browsern, aber irgendwie kann ich mir nicht vorstellen, dass so ein Kostenfaktor, selbst wenn's ein x-Faches wäre und wenn das 100000 kostet oder von mir aus auf 500000, dass das irgendwie 'n relevanter 'n relevanter Faktor ist am Ende. Ja. Oder vielleicht geben sie sogar das für Open Source Projekte günstiger umsonst, wie auch immer raus. Ja. Wenn wenn ihr wisst, wie ein Traffic Geld mit Mythos verdient oder ob sie damit Geld verdienen, lasst es uns gerne wissen. Ich glaube nicht. Cool. Ich hab ja schon am Anfang gesagt, das ist eine sehr AI lastige Folge. Und bevor ich den Dennis erzählen lasse, was wir grade so mit AI machen, hab ich noch ein anderes kleines Thema, was da vielleicht reinpasst. Wir haben ja vor Kurzem auch zumindest die Folge darüber aufgenommen, wie ich auf der Google Cloud Next war und haben da son bisschen drüber gesprochen, die kommt ja auch bald raus. Ein kleines Tipp mit, was wir in der Folge nicht so erwähnt haben, aber was ich trotzdem interessant fand, war, ich hab länger mit den Jetbrains Jungs und Mädels gequatscht. Ich glaub, es waren nur Jungs und haben über Juniy gesprochen. Juniy ist also deren Coding Agent und hat halt auch son son CLI TUI bekommen wie Cloud Code und Codex und Jamlike CLI und hast Du alles nicht gesehen. Und was sich da ganz interessant hat, was mir nicht so bewusst war, ist, dass alles, was Jetbrains aktuell grade so an AI Agent Capabilities baut, findet sich ja in vielen von ihren Produkten, also egal, was jetzt in der in der IDE ist, in diesen Webservices, die sie grade aufbauen, da ist ja viel recyceltes Zeug drin quasi. Deswegen macht's ja auch Sinn für sie, dass sie das so bauen, weil sie es an so vielen Stellen verwenden können. Aber sie entwickeln, testen und evaluieren das alles in dem Tool. So, das heißt, wenn ihr wirklich mal so Edge AI Agents quasi von Jetbrains testen wollt, macht das am allermeisten Sinn, Junis Sale Eye zu benutzen. Ich will gar nicht sagen, dass Junis Sale besser ist als die anderen, aber jetzt nur im Jet Brain Space gesprochen, ist man quasi an der Stelle noch am weitesten vorne mit dabei, weil sie sagen, na ja, das ist halt am einfachsten, da reinzukriegen, ne. Du brauchst nicht viel UI drumherum, Du brauchst nicht viel Server Kleinkommunikation und deshalb testen sie das im Prinzip alles da. Und am meisten davon natürlich da in dem Juni Early Access Preview. Also wenn ihr euch das noch mal anschauen wollt, ich hab das bei mir jetzt auch noch mal installiert. Und das macht schon 'n Unterschied noch mal zu dem AI Agent, den man jetzt so in den anderen Jetbrains IDs vielleicht auch findet. War mir nicht so bewusst, fand ich superinteressant, fand ich auch superinteressant, wie wir son bisschen über die Entwicklungsarbeit da gesprochen haben, vielleicht an der, an der anderen Stelle da noch mal mehr zu. Aber wenn ihr euch auch grade wieder 'n bisschen mehr mit Coding Agents beschäftigt und vielleicht da grade rum evaluiert und probiert, nicht ablassen wollt von dem den euren Altlasten rund Jet Brains. Aber Moment, bist doch, Du bist doch son Kontaktor Mensch, oder? Du machst das doch alles mittlerweile da drin. Mhm. Und ist das ist das hart, hängt das hart an Cloud Code oder kannst Du da jedes CLI Dingsbums mitbenutzen? Du kannst nicht jede CLI Dingsbums mitbenutzen. Du kannst aktuell Codex und Cloud nutzen. Weil er, also weil er die APIs von denen direkt benutzt oder benutzt er schon das CLI Tool im Hintergrund irgendwie, das alles auszuführen? Nee, ich glaub eher, weil er die, ja, subscription nutzt. Ah, okay. Weil sonst hätt ich gedacht, also wär ja so dieses ganze Multitasking, was Du mit Colleductor irgendwie machst, wär ja auch irgendwie cool, das mit mehreren unterschiedlichen Agents vielleicht mal so zu versuchen, weißt Du? Ja. Und dann son bisschen 'n Vergleichsgefühl dafür zu bekommen. Das ist ja das, wo ich ehrlicherweise immer son bisschen drüberstolper, egal ob ich jetzt mal Juni oder Germany oder was anderes halt wieder benutze. Man hat ja nicht so den 1 zu 1 Parallelenvergleich zwischen diesen 2 Tools. Man benutzt für die eine Aufgabe das und für die andere Aufgabe das und dann weiß man aber nie, lag's an der Aufgabe oder lag's an dem Agent oder Ja. Ja. Also ich mein, ich hab schon häufiger mal den gleichen Prompt und das gleiche Ding an das an unterschiedliche oder was auch immer geschmissen und geguckt, was mir da besser gefällt. Aber ist natürlich auch trotzdem nicht so richtig vergleichbar, weil Du dann wieder sagen kannst, ja, Modell x y braucht 'n bisschen andere und detailliert und weniger detailliert. Und trotzdem entspricht dir dann vielleicht mehr deiner Arbeitsweise oder deinem deiner Art, wie Du redest, kommunizierst, was auch immer. Kann ja auch einfach dann sein, dass das 'n Match ist, der besser passt. Ja, da haben wir auch drüber gesprochen, als wir mir son bisschen Julie noch mal schmackhaft machen wollten. Manchmal auch, es entsteht son gewisser, also ja eigentlich kein Wenderlog in, ne, weil Du bist ja keinster Weise da dran gezwungen, aber man lernt ja son bisschen auch schon dieses Prompton. Und ich hab jetzt auch so das Gefühl, wenn ich mit Cloud rede, fühlt es sich am, in Anführungszeichen, natürlichsten an. Aber ich hab keine Ahnung, ob es daran liegt, weil Cloud mich so gut versteht oder weil ich's so gut gelernt habe, quasi mit Cloud zu reden, so, ne. Schwräger Punkt. Aber speaking of reden, Du hast ganz viel mit deinem Agent geredet und zwar im wahrsten Sinne des Wortes geredet. Wie kam es dazu und worüber hast Du mit ihm geredet? Ich rede die ganze Zeit mit meinen meinen. Ich bin mir grade unsicher, auf was Du hinauswillst. Willst Du darüber hinaus, dass wir reden jetzt mittlerweile und wirst bei Flow nutzen oder möchtest Du darüber hinaus, was wir grade bei Lotum machen? Oder beides. Beides. Ich dachte, das wär 'n guter guter Opener für beides, so. Ja, wir haben uns heute überlegt, weil wir grade mittendrinstecken bei Lotum, nämlich in unserer vierten AI Week, dass wir einfach mal kurz darüber 'n bisschen plaudern, euch abzuholen oder mitzunehmen, wie das bei uns, wie wir das bei uns handeln, wie wir versuchen, AI weiter in unseren Alltag zu integrieren und da möglichst, ja, mit den neuesten neuesten Trends mithalten zu können. Und 1 dieser Trends, die uns im Moment ein bisschen einholt und auch natürlich ein bisschen Gewöhnung und irgendwie Umgang braucht, wie das mit vielen der neuen Arbeitsweisen so ist, ist Whisper Flow als Tool, haben wir's einfach eine, simpel ausgedrückt, eine Diktier App ist, die aber halt einfach in der Qualität so ist, dass sie dich versteht und Punkt. Also es gibt eigentlich nicht viel, was was man darüber noch sagen muss. So einfach alles, was Du reinsprichst, kommt so da raus. Es gibt noch zusätzlich dann, dass es automatisch verfeinert werden kann, dass es automatisch sich merkt, in welchem Programm Du welche Art von Sprech hast und dann entsprechend noch das son bisschen, was Du dann da reingesprochen hast, dass das eigentlich ja auch noch zusätzlich hübsch aussieht. Der ist son bisschen, ne, Du kannst auch einfach deine Gedanken teilen. Du kannst sagen, ach nee, das meinte ich grad nicht so und dann ersetzt er das son bisschen an der Stelle. Er kann dann Listen formatieren und so Dinge. Genau. Also von daher das vielleicht erst mal als grundsätzliche Empfehlung, kann man wahrscheinlich schon sagen. Es gibt einige hier im Unternehmen, die das sehr hart pushen und so sagen, hey, das ist 'n wahnsinniger Effizienzgewinn für Sie gewesen. Ich glaub, Fabi hat das auch schon dreimal in unterschiedlichsten Konstellationen als Pick of the day in sone DeepPipe Folge hier reingeschwungert. Ja. Aber ja, also da sind's wirklich Leute, die da hart drauf schwirren. Und es bringt natürlich die Challenge mit sich. Also es ist halt bisschen weird, in sein Macbook reinzulabern so. Es ist nicht gesund zu flüstern über lange Zeiträume. Das heißt, es ist auch besser, seine normale Sprache zu nutzen. Ist das Ja. Das war hier auch irgend eine interne Diskussion mit 1 Logopädin, die die das gesagt hat. Das wusste ich ja alles. Und ja, von daher son bisschen die Frage, also man will sich dann ja irgendwie auch nicht immer in ein Einzelbüros setzen, dann ist das Konzept der Büro- und Zusammenkommenarbeit irgendwie wieder son bisschen. Dahin, es fühlt sich erst mal halt weird an, wenn man auch, ne, seine Gedanken und sein vielleicht, ja, wie dumm prompt ich dieses Ding jetzt eigentlich grade und das kriegen ja jetzt Kolleginnen mit so, die das hören. Das ist sone gewisse Hemmschwelle, die man vielleicht am Anfang hat. Vielleicht, ich nutze es auch selbst noch nicht in in allen Situationen, aber auf jeden Fall ja, es kann schon es kann schon helfen. Was 1 der, also neben der Geschwindigkeit der Texteingabe ist für viele das Große so, Du kannst halt einfach labern und dieser Mehrkontext ist halt der, den Du in deinem Kopf hast und der ist halt einfach da. Und wenn Du's sonst in Text verfasst, dann reduzierst Du's auf jeden Fall schon und nimmst irgendwie Dinge raus, die Du eigentlich noch in deinem Kopf mit dazu hattest. Und das führt einfach dazu, dass mehr Kontext und mehr deine Gedanken bei den Agents landen. Genau. Das als kurzen Ausflug zu zu Whisperflow, was jetzt durch eine, also ich glaub, wir haben jetzt in dem Team irgendwie 20, 25 Leute, also es sind wahrscheinlich schon so die Hälfte der Hälfte der Firma innerhalb weniger Wochen da aufgesprungen auf diesen auf diesen Zug. Ja, und apropos Aufspringen, wir haben jetzt schon das vierte Mal eine sogenannte AI Week bei Lotum, wo wir uns einfach komplett das Projekt- und Tagesgeschäft pausieren und jeder die Freiheit hat, die ganze Woche lang an AI Themen zu arbeiten. Und jetzt ist natürlich die Frage, okay, was bedeutet das? Was sind die AI Themen? Und es gibt sehr wenige Vorgaben, die wir dort machen und wir hatten sehr, sehr unterschiedliche AI Weeks in der Vergangenheit. Also die haben alle son bisschen den Fokus gehabt. Ich glaub, die Erste war vor, ist ja nie wanni war, ob die vor 2 Jahren vielleicht so war oder was Die Erste? Wissen nicht so lang her. Bevor ich dabei war. Also ich muss schon tatsächlich 3 Jahre her sein. Okay. Ja, ja. Da war es halt so, okay, man hatte die ersten Ideen, das war alles ganz spannend, wenn man das irgendwie ausprobiert und ist an ganz vielen Dingen noch irgendwie gescheitert. Die Dritte ist gar nicht so lange her, die ist 'n paar Monate her. Da war dann so sehr beeindruckend, okay, es geht jetzt richtig viel und vor allen Dingen in allen möglichen Bereichen. Das heißt, wir hatten vorher so der Dev Bereich hatte eine Cloud Lizenz und danach hatten wir irgendwie dann 100 Prozent, hatte hier irgendwie dann Claude am Start und hat sich eigene Tools und und Skripts geschrieben. Und das hat halt einfach, also beeindruckend zu sehen für mich, wie viel das noch mal gepusht hat so einfach im ganzen Unternehmen, obwohl wir vorher schon das Gefühl hatten, wir sind jetzt nicht ganz weit hinten dran und wir sind schon einigermaßen up to date. Aber diese Freiheime einfach noch mal zu haben, sich mit allen möglichen Leuten auszutauschen, zu wissen, die anderen haben grade auch nix anderes im im Sinn und Kopf, außer dieses Thema ist superhilfreich. Und da sind viele, viele kleine Tools, viele Apps entstanden, teilweise natürlich irgendwie so als Mittel zum Zweck, ne, dass man irgendwie was hat, mal was auszuprobieren. Und dadurch haben sich natürlich auch ganz neue ganz neue ja etabliert. Ich glaub, haben wir hier im Podcast auch noch nie noch nicht so groß thematisiert, wir sind in einem Projekt, was wir gerade machen, ein Spiel, was wir neu entwickeln, also kein kein Bestandsgame. Da sind wir jetzt einen sehr radikalen Weg gegangen vor 3 Monaten, denn in der letzten AI Week hat der Game Lead Lars dort einen Prototypen, wie nennt man das jetzt? Bank, ist das noch? Nee, das ist dann eher, ne. Also Also für ihn ist es ja, weil er hat's ja gar nicht damit beschäftigt, eigentlich. Genau. Also Und da war son bisschen erschreckend, wie schnell das auf 1 Qualität war, die sehr ähnlich dem eigentlichen Projekt, was in entwickelt wurde, irgendwie ähnelte in in dann Webtechnik Zumindest dann außen hin so für den User. Ja. Ja, ja, ja, genau. Ja. Intern war's eine Riesen, also es war praktisch eine Datei irgendwie 3000 Codes, so ordentlich ordentlich kaputt. Aber es hat natürlich trotz der Diskussionen irgendwie bei uns ausgelöst, okay, wenn das in dieser Zeit geht und wir wollen irgendwelche ersten Sachen testen und irgendwelche Features testen oder so was, ist das nicht eine Qualität, die ausreicht, das machen zu können? Und dann gab's viele Gespräche darüber und Abwägung und am Ende haben wir gesagt, lass uns mal diesen sehr radikalen Weg gehen. Er ist jetzt nicht ganz so radikal, dass wir sagen, okay, wir gucken gar nicht in den Code, aber man muss schon sagen, es ist so, dass uns die Codequalität in Anführungsstrichen egal ist und Anführungsstriche bedeutet halt, solange irgendwie das Ding noch mit Agents bedienbar ist. Das heißt, was schon passiert ist, dass dann die Devs, die hier ran, in dem Projekt dran sind, versucht haben, diesen Prototyp 'n bisschen modularer zu machen und einfach son bisschen aufzuräumen, zu gucken, dass das dass eben nutzbar ist. Und am Ende jetzt die Aufgabe haben, okay, wir sorgen dafür, dass durch Tests, durch durch Dinge, die einfach an dem Projekt gegeben sind, wir die Möglichkeit haben, dass jeder an den Dingen rumprompen kann, der in diesem Projektteam ist. Und das ist dann nicht nur der Gamlead, das ist dann das sind die Designer*innen, das ist aber auch Content und Sound und natürlich die selbst. Das heißt, alle Gewerke, die wir so vorher dann einzeln hatten, sind jetzt an der echten Code Base und prompt ja, Agents, die dort Änderungen machen. Und bis jetzt fühlt sich das supergut an. Natürlich ähnliche Herausforderungen wie alles in AI. Also das heißt son bisschen Mental Overload und Gefahr, da ein bisschen zu viel zu machen, ist auf jeden Fall gegeben. Ja, also das war jetzt noch mal 'n Exkurs sozusagen, 1 der Projekte, ein konkretes Beispiel sozusagen, okay, das ist entsprungen aus der der letzten AI Week. Und ja, da stecken wir grade wieder mittendrin. Jan und ich, wir sind beide an einem an einem Prototypen meines Spiels tatsächlich auch so zu gucken, okay, das ist AI First gedacht, also was was ginge vorher oder was geht vorher nicht? Was ist jetzt nur möglich dadurch, dass wir so was wie haben, mit denen man interagieren kann. Und nächste Woche haben wir dann das dazu. Das heißt, da wird man 'n bisschen sehen, was überall passiert ist und mit Sicherheit auch spüren, ja, was das so für 'n nächster Schub war. Was diesmal weniger war in der letzten fand ich auch sehr spannend. In der letzten waren viele so Diskussion, Diskussionsthemen, die auch angebracht wurden, wo wir über son bisschen ethische Seiten von a I, wie wollen wir das irgendwie als Unternehmen? Wie wohl fühlen wir uns damit? Mit welchen Anbietern? Was ist das son bisschen? Natürlich auch Ängste, die mit verknüpft sind. Was bedeutet das für unsere Rollen? Auch über die Rollen gesprochen. Was ist das, was bedeutet das für unsere Stellenausschreibungen? Was bedeutet das für die Profile, die wir haben? Also all das, was sich im Moment halt so krass ändert, das irgendwie son bisschen zu zu bündeln und gemeinsam zu erforschen. Ja, ich glaub, das spielt aber auch rein, dass, was ja selber gesagt, die letzte AI Week war vor 3 oder 4 Monaten oder so was, ne. Und da hat sich ja prinzipiell an dem, was wir da in diesen ganzen Diskussionsrunden angesprochen haben, nicht so viel geändert, ne. Also alles, was man damals an ethischen Bedenken oder Hoffnungen haben konnte, hat man heute, glaub ich, immer noch. Alle Fragen, die sich in Bezug auf Recruitingstellen sind quasi noch dieselben in den letzten 3 Monaten, ne. Nicht, dass viel passiert ist, aber ich glaube, es ist halt viel auf technischer Front passiert. Und auf, ich sag mal, prinzipieller Front sozusagen hat sich ja jetzt nicht so viel getan so, ja. Ja. Und vielleicht ist es ja auch einfach 'n gutes Zeichen, dass wir viel von den Sachen adressiert haben und jetzt nicht so der da war, die direkt noch mal rauszuholen, ja. Und und noch mal irgendwie über Hiring Impact oder so was zu sprechen. Und es gab ja schon, also 'n paar kleinere Diskussionsrunden gab's. Ich war in der mit mit Benny und und Sven und Jens und so, wo wir son bisschen über, was sind denn eigentlich AI First Spieletitel? Wie kann das aussehen und gibt's das überhaupt? Und so, halt son bisschen mehr auf auf Produktebene vielleicht so darüber diskutiert haben, ja. Aber ja, diese diese Grundsatzdiskussion hatten wir, glaub ich, dieses Mal weniger und ich find das auch okay so. Okay, ja, nee, absolut. Aber genau. Und so hat halt jede, die wir bis jetzt hatten, irgendwie so ihren eigenen Touch, ging irgendwo in eine in eine bestimmte Richtung, hat an verschiedenen Stellen irgendwie Dinge bewirkt. Aber bis jetzt war es immer sehr, sehr, sehr, also es hat der ganzen den ganzen Unternehmen 'n ordentlichen Schub noch mal verpasst, obwohl wir im Alltag uns schon sehr viel Zeit und Raum geben und nehmen für AI und die Weiterentwicklung, ja. Und das ist halt irgendwo, ja, genau. Wir haben ja vor einiger Zeit schon eine Folge gemacht zu Hackathons und Gamejams und so was wir ja schon viel früher vor der AI Week gemacht haben. Also die berühmte Folge mit dem Hackfleisch Cover. Was würdest Du denn sagen, ist denn jetzt der Unterschied für dich zu 'nem Game Jam vielleicht oder 'n Hackathon Woche, die wir ja schon x-gemacht haben vorher, zu der AI Week, weil jetzt so unseren Spieleprototyp zum Beispiel, den hätten wir ja auch in 'nem Game Jam bauen können. Das ist richtig, ja. Und das ist ja auch explizit, was wir so diesmal im Framing auch gesagt haben, dass das auch völlig in Ordnung ist, ne. Also wenn jetzt Spielideen oder andere Dinge, die halt vorher in 'nem Gamebo stattgefunden haben, dass die jetzt auch in der AI Week stattfinden. Und klar, da vielleicht noch mal mehr explorieren, was ist so an der Grenze des Machbaren? Was ist der Unterschied, den AI dort auch macht, dass man da 'n bisschen mehr den Fokus drauf legt? Aber ja, deswegen ist es ist es explizit halt so offen gestaltet, dass das grundsätzlich passieren kann. Ich glaub, insgesamt ist es halt, und das wird sich auch ändern. Also ich mein tendenziell, ich weiß es nicht, vielleicht ist der Gedanke ja, dass man halt, also ne, irgendwie eher so immer dann in dem Modus irgendwann ist. Aktuell sind das alles noch Neuerungen und man muss abholen. Es gibt, ne, immer was Neues zu entdecken. Hoffentlich sind wir ja dann irgendwann so weit, dass das einfach auch der Alltag ist, in in dem wir uns irgendwie bewegen und man dann vielleicht wieder ein anderes ein anderes Format finden muss. Aber so gesehen würd ich sagen, es hat 'n größeren Impact auf den Alltag aktuell. Also während der Gamegam vielleicht 'n bisschen isolierter war und vielleicht auch mal ein Spiel draus gekommen ist, was wir dann weiterentwickelt haben, ne, und und irgendwie versucht haben, sonem Produkt zu machen, ist es bei der AI Week eher son bisschen, dass es tiefer in die Prozesse und in die Gedanken und die in die Zusammenarbeit so eingreift, die wir danach haben und ja, im besten Fall so den den Alltag von allen ein bisschen erleichtert, verbessert, wie auch immer. Das seh ich so als als als Hauptunterschied. Und vor allen Dingen aber auch gedanklich zeigt und das ist etwas, wenn man über den ganzen Transformationsprozess irgendwie nachdenkt, wie wie, also wie wie kann man sich da als Unternehmen irgendwie weiterentwickeln und das irgendwie attraktiv und spannend gestalten für die Mitarbeitenden. Das, was wir immer wieder beobachtet haben, wenn Du ein konkretes Beispiel aus deiner Bubble hast, das Du zeigen kannst, wo ein Use Case ist, der funktioniert hat, der ist tausendmal mehr wert als irgendein Marketingvideo von von 'nem neuen AI Tool und das treibt so die Adoption am meisten. Also einfach irgendwie Use Cases, reale Dinge, die hier passieren, die in unserem Kontext sind, die einen echten Impact haben so, Das ist das, was dann auf die anderen abfärbt und wo sie sagen, ach krass, wenn das funktioniert hat bei uns, na ja, gut sein, wird das und das auch funktionieren. Ja, und das kommt natürlich stark dadurch, ne, dass jetzt jeder teilt, was er macht, was die Möglichkeiten waren, wo die Grenzen sind Und das sehr, dieses sehr Theoretische, was man halt in Blogbeiträgen und so weiter sich lesen kann, sehr in die Praxis holt. Wie sieht es denn bei uns aus? Was sind denn unsere Limitierungen? Was sind denn unsere Grenzen von dem, was aktuell möglich ist? Ich würd das unterschreiben und gleichzeitig noch son bisschen relativieren. Weil ich glaub schon, das, was Du gesagt hast, ist richtig. Aber ich glaube, man kann das auch kleiner machen. Also wahrscheinlich, oder gibt bei uns auch genug Beispiele, wo derselbe Effekt auch eintritt, wenn jemand das einfach nur mit 'nem persönlichen Thema irgendwie hat, ne. Also ein Beispiel wär jetzt unser unser Office Managementteam hat irgendwie eine App gebaut, die die Maintenance und Care für unsere Pflanzen zu automatisieren so, ja? Das war son sehr kleiner, sehr isolierter Use Case, aber es hat halt für sie supergut funktioniert. Und das war 'n Erfolgserlebnis und deswegen kümmern sie sich jetzt auch mithilfe von AI größere Probleme. Wenn wir jetzt da unsere Buchungsplattform irgendwie grade da selber bauen so, ne, das ist ja schon 'n Step Change dann so. Aber wir sehen auch bei manch anderen, die sich, weiß ich nicht, also zu Hause halt irgendwie mit 'nem Thema beschäftigen und da halt so was gelöst haben oder 'n Erfolgserlebnis hatten. Und es hat auch schon reicht in Anführungszeichen, son Katalysator zu sein, dann halt das mitzubringen in die Firma, ins Team und dann zu sagen, guck mal, ich hab hier das gemacht und das auch. Also man muss gar nicht, glaub ich, immer nur und ich glaub, den Anspruch haben wir auch zumindest in der AI Week nicht, nicht immer nur die großen Probleme von der Firma lösen. Ich glaub, es reicht einfach, wenn Du irgendeine Art von Erfolgserlebnis so hast, ja. Also ich weiß nicht, Du kannst gefühlt sich jede Woche mit Benny an den Tisch setzen bei uns beim Mittagessen und er erzählt dir, was er zu Hause grade wieder mit irgend 'nem AI Projekt gemacht hat oder mit Richard oder so, ja. Und das ist, glaub ich, mindestens genauso wichtig. Und deshalb find ich's auch immer gut, ne, wenn wir halt sagen, experimentiert halt damit. Und das das muss jetzt nicht am aktuellen Produkt hängen. Es muss auch nicht unbedingt das nächste Spiel irgendwie rauskommen, aber es muss halt für euch irgendwie was sein, was was funktioniert so. Ja, und selbst, wenn's manchmal nicht funktioniert, kann man ja auch was draus lernen. Aber am Ende ist, glaub ich, so das das Entscheidende, dass man son son Erlebnis irgendwie geschaffen hat. Ja. Ja. Geschaffen hat. Ja. Ja, also genau, wenn ihr irgendwie auch da noch mal spezifischere Fragen habt oder das bei euch machen wollt, aber irgendwelche Hürden habt oder so, könnt ihr euch hier gerne melden, wenn wir da irgendwo mit Erfahrungsberichten unterstützen können und erreichen. Dann das kommt zu euch und veranstaltet AI Weeks on demand. Ach, so für Einzelunternehmen. Kann ich das mal machen? Ja. Echt, das da schon, da kann man schon profitieren. Ja, das stimmt. Fantastisch. Zurück zum Projekt. Eigentlich darf so was nämlich nicht passieren. Das ist vielleicht auch noch an der Stelle. Diese diese Podcastaufnahme hier ist eigentlich komplett gegen das Konzept, das wir haben. Deswegen immerhin gut, dass wir heute viel über AI geredet haben, weil sonst soll man sich nämlich alles aus dem Kalender streichen. Und dass wir hier grade sitzen und nicht in unserem AI We Projekt arbeiten, ist eigentlich schon fatal. Ich mein, wir sind auch nur 2 von den sonst üblichen 5. Also ich weiß, die anderen so, Dave akut rausgattern, sonst üblichen Fünfer. Also ich weiß, die anderen so, Dave akut raus, guddelt erst mal raus, Fabi Fragezeichen, was er grade tut. Ja. Also, schau. Das stimmt. Ich hab zum Abschluss noch 2 ganz kleine Punkte. Der eine ist mir gestern Abend aufgefallen, und zwar gibt's eine neue Dokumentation von unseren Freunden bei CultureRIPO, die sich ja immer die Themen kümmern, wo Dennis jetzt sagt, das interessiert doch heute gar keinen mehr, wie mal son Framework irgendwie entstanden ist. Ah. Das muss man gar nicht mehr wissen. Das reicht, wenn deine AI das weiß, wie man das benutzt. Aha. Ja, erzähl's mir weiter. Dann relativ ich das noch mal. Ja. Okay. Auf alle Fälle, es geht in der aktuellen Doku Spring und Java. Sie sprechen mit Rod Johnson und Jürgen Höller, die da so die die Köpfe hinter springen sind. Und ich find das 'n sehr cooles Beispiel, weil viele von den Frameworks, die wir aktuell nutzen, wenn man an Lara Well denkt und auch viel, was grade in der No JS Welt passiert, die haben halt so ihre ihre Wurzeln im Springen, ja. Da sind irgendwie viele Konzepte das erste Mal richtig gedacht worden. Inversion of Control, Dependency Injection, Model View Controller bla bla bla. Von daher, wenn man sich einfach dafür interessiert, warum manche Frameworkentscheidungen so getroffen worden sind, wie sie getroffen worden sind, was der Hintergrund war, warum das notwendig war, Sehr coole Doku, kann ich nur empfehlen. Und bevor ich meinen zweiten Punkt mach, darf Dennis jetzt noch was dazu sagen? Mein erster Impuls war auch direkt mir jetzt mal so innerlich so. Danke. Jakob. Wurzel braucht's ja nicht mehr. Aber ich mein, ist es ja, wie Du schon sagst, sone Dokumentation über, ne, wie wir's entstanden oder so. Das das finde ich, hat noch eine Relevanz und ist interessant, wie so Dinge entstanden werden sind. Und ja, die gibt es vielleicht zu einem Framework nicht mehr in 5 Jahren, sondern dann eben halt, wieso hat sich Cloud so entwickelt, wie's sich entwickelt hat oder so? Das wird sich anpassen, aber ja, die die Relevanz oder interessant kann ich's mir trotzdem vorstellen, auch wenn Du heute dich nicht mehr von Spring inspirieren lässt, 'n neues Framework zu bauen. Und auch die Leute gibt es ja noch zurecht. Ja. Genau. Das dazu würd ich auch so unterschreiben. Und mein zweiter Punkt ist eigentlich mehr son Aufruf. Wir haben, ich weiß gar nicht, mit wem hier beim Mittagessen vor 'n paar Wochen son Quatsch und haben son bisschen darüber gesprochen oder beim Meet-up, wie eigentlich so akademische Ausbildung von Informatikerinnen grade aussieht in in Zeiten von AI und haben da son bisschen philosophiert, was es denn da braucht und was da funktioniert und was da vielleicht nicht funktionieren könnte und ne. Also wie finden auch junge Menschen irgendwie 'n Weg jetzt in diesen Arbeitsmarkt rein, wo sie vielleicht als, überspitzt gesagt, als Junior darf nicht gebraucht werden, weil jedes LLM ähnlich gut schon funktioniert, ja, ob man das an sich jetzt zahlt oder nicht, sei mal dahingestellt, aber das ist ja so die große Sorge. Und da würde ich unglaublich gerne mal mit jemandem darüber reden, der vielleicht an der Uni arbeitet und da irgendwie für Kurse verantwortlich ist, da Dozent ist, whatever. Wenn ihr da jemanden kennt, der da entweder sehr engagiert ist und vielleicht gerne darüber reden will oder selber so jemand seid, dann schickt uns doch gerne mal eine E-Mail an Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar, weil ich glaube, das wär 'n super spannendes Gespräch und auch superwertvoll für viele Leute da draußen. Das nur als kleiner Aufruf und damit sind wir schon fertig für heute. So. Entspannte 40 Minuten zu zweit, wie immer, Dennis und ich bin besonders schnell. So. Und jetzt kümmern wir uns ganz schnell wieder unser AI Week Projekt und wünschen euch eine schöne Restwoche, schöne Feiertag und wir hören uns nächste Woche wieder. Bis denn Mach's doch. Vielen Dank. 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0: Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu 1 neuen Newsausgabe der Programmierbar, heute in Kalenderwoche 20, 26 und heute in 1 sehr, fast hätte ich klein gesagt, aber in 1 sehr effizienten Besetzung vielleicht heute im Studio. Für euch hier vorm Mikro wie immer einmal der Jan und mir gegenüber im virtuellen Studio sitzt der\n\nSpeaker 1: Dennis Becker. Hallo.\n\nSpeaker 0: Moin moin Dennis. Ja, Dave Wann hast Du eigentlich\n\nSpeaker 1: eigentlich aufgehört, deinen Nachnamen zu nennen? Jetzt fühlt man sich immer so so komisch. Du hast das einfach ohne Absprache, wirst Du wieder auf deinen Vornamen gesprungen?\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich hab, also ich hab das, glaub ich, zweimal gemacht, das kam mir komisch vor und dann dachte ich, ich mach das nicht. Okay. Ihr habt ihr habt alle so so kurze Namen. Bei euch klingt das halt, weißt Du, wenn eine Garelt Mogre oder das, das klingt halt so prägnant, aber wenn Du halt 2 Vornamen und 2 Nachnamen hast, da heißt der halbe Podcast rum, bis ich fertig bin.\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay. Sehr gut.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das irgendwie, ja. Weiß nicht. Also.\n\nSpeaker 1: Na gut.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wenn wenn da draußen die Leute wissen wollen, wie ich heiße, sie könnt mich gerne fragen, sie könnt's gerne auf der Webseite nachlesen oder wenn sie finden, ich sollte es jedes Mal sagen, können sie mir gerne böse E-Mails schreiben und vielleicht passen wir das dann noch an. Mhm. Aber wenn Du schon das Spotlight so auf mich gerichtet hast, weißt Du, warum das heute eine besondere Folge für mich ist?\n\nSpeaker 1: Nein. Das ist die\n\nSpeaker 0: Nein.\n\nSpeaker 1: X-te Folge für dich.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das, nah dran. Wäre sone Chance?\n\nSpeaker 1: Du hast Jahresjubiläum.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das, nein. Es ist so, dass ich quasi die Hälfte der programmierbar Folgen jetzt miterlebt hab.\n\nSpeaker 1: Also also miterlebt ist, ist in deiner Zeit entstanden oder Ja, also ich\n\nSpeaker 0: war ja natürlich nicht in der Hälfte der Folgen dabei, so. Das das wär, glaub ich, 'n bisschen bisschen krass noch. Aber zumindest, genau, hab ich die Hälfte der programmierbarfolgen miterlebt und den den Prozess dahinter begleitet und so. Und das hat mich son bisschen überrascht. Ich hab das neulich wegen was anderem nachgeguckt, weil die Programmier ist ja schon 'n paar Jährchen älter.\n\nMhm. Und dass wir's quasi geschafft haben, aber in den letzten zweieinhalb, bald 3 Jahren quasi die Hälfte der Folgen aus den gesamten 8 Jahren und 'n paar Zerquetschten irgendwie zu produzieren, das fand ich schon, ist schon cool. Ja. Anyway, wir wollen ja eigentlich nicht hier über mich reden, sondern reden wir über dich, Dennis, weil ich bin ja nicht da am einundzwanzigsten, aber Du bist da und am einundzwanzigsten Mai passiert was in Bad Nauheim?\n\nSpeaker 1: Das beste Meet-up aller Zeiten.\n\nSpeaker 0: So wie jedes Mal eigentlich.\n\nSpeaker 1: So wie jedes Mal hat wieder lädt wieder ein. Ja, kommt gerne vorbei zum World Accessibility Day, den wir auch in der Programmierbar ein Thema widmen. Und zwar wird Raulden uns etwas erzählen. Jetzt erwischen wir natürlich aufm kalt Fuß, sich den genauen Titel nicht aufm Schirm, aber den kannst Du bestimmt jetzt nachreichen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Titel ist, glaub ich, auch an der Stelle zweitrangig. Es geht Accessibility. Es geht darum, wie man das selber anwendet. Es geht darum, dass es in bestehenden Anwendungen auch nicht immer son Problem ist. Und so wie er mir den Talk gepitcht hat, wird das, glaub ich, auch einfach superlustig.\n\nAlso, ich glaub, manchmal haben die Leute son bisschen Sorge vor sonem vielleicht etwas trockenen Thema, aber er hat da 'n echt cooles Format gefunden und ich, es tut mir leid, dass ich da bin, aber ich bin was er erzählt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, ob es dann so, na, ich will nicht zu viel teasern. Okay, ja, lassen wir's lassen wir's also, ich hab nämlich auch mit ihm kurz gesprochen. Ja, am nächsten Donnerstag wie immer, Getränke und Essen for free und kommt gerne vorbei, wenn dir im Rhein Main Gebiet sitzt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wunderbar. Und damit stützen wir uns direkt in die Themen, die wir gar nicht aufgefüllt haben, weil wir direkt an Namen uns aufgehängt haben.\n\nSpeaker 1: Sorry.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber wir wollen heute einmal sprechen über und, was es da seit dem letzten Update so gab. Und wir sprechen ein bisschen über AI und Development allgemein, aber da verraten wir vielleicht noch nicht so viel dazu. Ich hab mich ein bisschen eingelesen, ihr hattet ja in den letzten oder vorletzten, vorletzten eigenes müsste es, glaub ich, schon gewesen sein, ne, auch über Methhos gesprochen. Und da war's, glaub ich, noch relativ neu und diese Ankündigung, so, na ja, wir halten das für so ein sehr potentes Modell und wir quasi machen's erst mal 1 sehr kleinen Gruppe von Firmenentwicklerinnen, wie auch immer zugänglich, weil das halt auch in den falschen Händen viel Schaden anrichten kann. Ja.\n\nSo und seitdem haben natürlich 'n paar von diesen Leuten, die das Privileg hatten, damit arbeiten zu können zu dürfen, so ihre Erfahrungen geteilt und ihre Einschätzung. Und das ist, glaub ich, das viel interessantere, weil ihr habt ja auch in der Folge son bisschen darüber diskutiert, wie viel Marketing und Hype das halt am Ende so ist, dieses Vorgehen, das nur son paar Leuten zu geben und so weiter. Oder oder wie berechtigt das am Ende dann war. Und vielleicht, was sich gezeigt hat, ist, also es ist schon deutlich, deutlich besser als das, was so vorher da war. Das ist, glaub ich, schon der Tenor von all den, das, was so vorher da war.\n\nDas ist, glaub ich, schon der Tenor von all den Blogbeiträgen und Assets, die ich darüber gefunden hab. Alle Leute, die das probiert haben, haben gesagt, ja, es ist schon cooler, weil es a weniger falsch positive Treffer liefert und weil es b quasi schafft, längere Exploits zu finden, also Exploits zu finden, die quasi nur funktionieren, weil Du mehrere hintereinander hängst. Und nicht einfach nur, weil Du jetzt eine Stelle im Code identifiziert hast, wo 'n Overflow Error drin ist oder 'n Escape hier oder so was da, sondern halt schaffen okay zu sagen, okay, wenn Du diese 5 Sachen hintereinander hängst, dann weiß ich nicht, dass Du auf einmal oder so was. Was allerdings auch rausgekommen ist, nachdem ja mittlerweile auch GPT 5 5 veröffentlicht wurde, ist, dass die Leute, die das son bisschen gebanchmarket haben, gesagt haben, na ja, auch GPT 5 5 ist ähnlich gut darin, diese Art von Exploits zu finden und diese Art von falsch positiven Treffern eben auszuschließen, ja. Und das lässt halt am Ende auch son bisschen an dieser ganzen Marketiennummer von Intropic zweifeln, weil der ganze Hype Mytheus vielleicht gar nicht darin begründet ist, dass das als Modell jetzt so bahnbrechend anders ist, sondern dass einfach der allgemeine Model Fortschritt, der halt eben auch in GPT 5 5 ist, ne, mit Länge an Superwaise laufen zu lassen, irgendwie akkurater mit dem Kontextfenster umzugehen und so was alles, dass das halt einfach maßgeblich dazu beiträgt, auch eben in diesem Security Bereich besser zu sein, so.\n\nVon daher schauen wir mal. Es gab einen Beitrag von sonem britischen Security Institut, die tatsächlich Metaphs und GPT 5 5 gegeneinander benchmark haben und da quasi zu 'nem, ja, ich sag mal, zu 'nem Unentschieden gekommen sind. Das eine war manchen Sachen besser als andere in anderen, aber es war jetzt keiner irgendwie bahnbrechend weiter als der andere. Das verlinken wir auch mal hier in den Shownotes, kann man sich mal anschauen. Und es gab einen sehr interessanten Artikel von Firefox Engineer, der son bisschen beschrieben hat, wie sie das denn genutzt haben.\n\nUnd zum einen war gesagt, na gut, das hat uns geholfen, megaviele irgendwie Security Lücken zu schließen und auch gar nicht so dieses Problem gehabt von, ja, wir hatten da, glaub ich, vor 'nem Jahr oder so mal drüber gesprochen, diese ganze AI SLOP Pull Request, die so über Open Source Projekte irgendwie herfallen, weil Leute halt glauben, irgendwie 'n Pull Request aufmachen zu müssen für irgendwas, was ihr Model ihnen gesagt hat, was da jetzt passieren muss. Sondern auch da die falsch positiven Treffer halt deutlich, deutlich reduzitter waren, sodass insgesamt die Nutzung von dem Model halt skalierbarer war, ja. Also es hilft Ihnen ja nichts, wenn Sie jetzt mit Mytheus irgendwie 500 bekommen, die Hälfte davon wegschmeißen müssen, weil sie nicht taugen und so weiter. Also das war schon ganz cool. Und was er aber auch beschrieben hat, war so, dass das Harness, was sie halt drumherum aufgesetzt haben und ehrlicherweise auch schon vorher aufgesetzt hatten.\n\nUnd das ist, glaub ich, das Entscheidende, ja, weil die Leute irgendwie da draußen immer nur denken, aha, mythhers irgendwie als Modell und ich setz das irgendwie auf mein Projekt an und auf einmal find ich da superviele Schwachstellen oder kann superviele Schwachstellen gleich schließen, weil sie die Patches mitliefern. Und er beschreibt im Prinzip in dem Blogpost, den wir auch noch mal verlinken, so wie sieht dieser CICD Prozess bei denen eigentlich aus? Wie nutzen Sie tatsächlich mehrere unterschiedliche Modelle, das eine zu nutzen, die Schwachstellen zu finden? Das andere, die Schwachstelle und den Fix eben validieren zu lassen dafür? Und wenn die Validierung fehlschlägt, dann verwerfen Sie das wieder.\n\nWie machen Sie die Einschätzung und die Priorisierung, die Triage von diesen ganzen Pullrequests, die da rausfallen? Und wie haben Sie dieses neue Requirement eben umgesetzt, dass Mithhouse nicht nur eine Schwachstelle liefern muss, sondern auch gleichzeitig den Proof of Concept dafür mitliefern muss. Also zu jeder Schwachstelle, die das findet, muss es quasi einen funktionierenden Exploit mitliefern. Ansonsten sagen sie halt, ist das halt son theoretischer Fix, der bestimmt irgendwie 'n Wert hat, aber für sie halt nicht Priorität hat so, ja? Und das fand ich eigentlich ganz cool.\n\nSie haben son bisschen beschrieben, wie sie dieses Harnes drumherum halt eigentlich schon aufgesetzt hatten, weil sie das genommen haben, auch mit GPT 4 schon zu experimentieren und so was. Und dass jetzt eben der Teil in die das Zahnrad in dieser ganzen Maschine war, was ihn erlaubt hat, misst das halt wirklich effizient einzusetzen, ja. Und das fand ich 'n cooles Beispiel, zu sagen, so das das Model ist wichtig und das liefert eine wichtige, aber Du musst dir halt für dein Projekt schon so sehr gezielt Gedanken darum machen, ne, was ist halt dein Harness? Was verlangst Du davon? Wo legst Du so das Benchmark an?\n\nWie funktionieren deine Guardrails? Weil nur dann kannst Du halt wirklich viel damit machen. Und er meinte halt auch, jetzt haben sie halt 'n Set-up, was so gut funktioniert, dass sie halt im Prinzip in der Lage sind, jedes andere Modell da drauf zu werfen. Und Sie machen das auch regelmäßig und dann halt eben zu verstehen, okay, liefert jetzt, weiß nicht, ne, in Zukunft ein GPT 5 6 bessere Ergebnisse als ein Mythos. Und dann können Sie's halt relativ einfach austauschen.\n\nAber am Ende ist für sie halt das mit das Entscheidende, damit die ganze Sache funktionieren kann. Das fand ich irgendwie. Ganz cool.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Aber ich mein, am Ende ja trotzdem beeindruckend. Ich glaub, das hast Du, diesen Grafen hast Du eben nicht erwähnt, oder? In dieser Anzahl von\n\nSpeaker 0: Dingen, die\n\nSpeaker 1: ich fix habe. Nee,\n\nSpeaker 0: also, sie haben son bisschen aufgezeigt, wie viel Fixes und Lücken finden sie so damit. Und das waren so in den vergangenen Monaten vorher, weiß nicht so, 20, 30 pro Monat irgendwie. Und jetzt ist es halt damit irgendwie auf über 400 explodiert, von denen Sie ungefähr 300, glaub ich, diesen diesem Set-up irgendwie zuschreiben, was Sie wohl gefunden haben. Ja, also wie gesagt, es scheint scheint ja zu funktionieren.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, aber da da wunder mich, also son bisschen passt das halt nicht so hundertprozentig für mich zusammen. Also diese kritischen oder was kritischen Stimmen, aber die die sagen, ja, ist vielleicht gar nicht so doll oder keine Ahnung was und ist ist Kodex 5 5 nicht irgendwie ähnlich. Und dann hast Du aber dann einfach im Ergebnis 'n sehr populäres Produkt, was dann Methhers Zugriff hat und halt einfach ein x-Faches an Security und Bugs irgendwie löst und schließt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also ich weiß nicht, ob sich das gegenseitig ausschließen muss. Vielleicht könnten könnten Sie dasselbe Ergebnis auch mit GPT 5 5 irgendwie liefern. Ich glaub, für Sie entscheidend tatsächlich, dass sie 'n Geheimnis haben und 'n skalierbaren Prozess, so. Und vielleicht haben sie Methhos zum Anstoß genommen, das halt mal alles so aufzusetzen und ordentlicher zu machen, ja. Ich glaube nicht, dass Du, wenn Du dir diesen Chart anguckst von 20 auf 400 hochgehen, weiß ich nicht, wenn wir jetzt einfach nur Metaphs an unsere Spiele dran lassen würden, ja, per se würde das nicht so viel finden.\n\nDu brauchst schon das Set-up so drumherum, was dir hilft, so das zu finden, das zu validieren, das zu kategorisieren, das schon auch wichtig.\n\nSpeaker 1: In der Menge und in der Effizienz dann auf jeden Fall, ja. Aber hm. Ich glaube schon, dass da noch gewisse, dass da 'n bisschen mehr Power drin ist als in den anderen Modellen, die wir bis jetzt auf den Markt frei verfügbar haben.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, und also an der Stelle, ohne da jetzt wieder ganz tief reinzugehen, sei auch noch mal an diesen Vergleich von diesem britischen Security Institut verwiesen. Mhm. Der halt auch son bisschen beschrieben haben, was mussten sie halt mit und was mussten sie mit GPT 5 5 machen, sie halt so dahin zu kriegen, ja? Und da ist schon, mit 5 5 musst Du 'n bisschen mehr noch noch tun, weil das halt nicht so fine tuned ist. Aber es gab ja auch, oh, das weiß wahrscheinlich besser als ich, es gab zumindest von GPT 5 4 ja auch mal son Security Variante.\n\nIch weiß gar nicht, ob's die von 5 5 auch gibt, aber vielleicht wär das dann der passendere Vergleich am Ende des Tages, zu sagen, son Aber ähnlich Security fein geht also das Modell.\n\nSpeaker 1: Soweit ich weiß, ist Methis ja gar nicht auf den Security Bereich gefeintuned oder irgendwie darauf gemacht. Es ist eher, es ist allgemein und dadurch kann es auch die Security Lücken lösen. Also ich glaube gar nicht, dass es so die diesen Fokus hat. Ist eher so, es ist sehr und das ist das, wo wir das Problem sehen, dass es so ist, ist der Bereich Security und deswegen machen wir Marketing drum rum.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, ja. Was natürlich auch nirgendswo erwähnt wird, weil das wahrscheinlich auch einfach nicht Teil der Diskussion ist, die was diese ganzen Firmen mit den Tropic irgendwie haben oder zumindest nicht Teil der öffentlichen Diskussion ist, was kostet das halt am Ende des Tages, ne? Also das so in Relation zu setzen, wie viel mehr musst Du ausgeben, dieses Mehr an Leistung zu bekommen? Und ist das wirklich eine lineare Skalierung? Oder ist das halt exponentiell und deshalb vielleicht auch gar nicht rentabel im Einsatz?\n\nAußer halt Security, wo Du im Prinzip keinen keinen Preis dran machen kannst, so, ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Und andererseits kannst Du sagen, ist das irgendwie alternativlos für die großen Anbieter, sich da zu wappnen und\n\nSpeaker 0: Weiß ich ja, genau. Weil Security halt keinen Preis hat, so. Du musst halt jeden Preis in Anführungszeichen verhindern, dass Du dass Du quasi Opfer von sonem Exploit wirst. Und dann ist es in Anführungszeichen egal, dass Mitheus in der Anwendung irgendwie zehnmal so viel kostet als vielleicht jetzt Cloud oder so was, weil Du halt nur dann diese Ergebnisse irgendwie bekommen kannst. Ja.\n\nIn Anführungszeichen, weil man vielleicht noch schauen muss, wie das sich mit GPT verhält oder so. Aber ja, das ist vielleicht einfach Teil des Modells da.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, und ich kenn jetzt tatsächlich überhaupt gar nicht so die Finanzierung hinter Projekten wie Firefox oder anderen Browsern, aber irgendwie kann ich mir nicht vorstellen, dass so ein Kostenfaktor, selbst wenn's ein x-Faches wäre und wenn das 100000 kostet oder von mir aus auf 500000, dass das irgendwie 'n relevanter 'n relevanter Faktor ist am Ende.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Oder vielleicht geben sie sogar das für Open Source Projekte günstiger umsonst, wie auch immer raus. Ja. Wenn wenn ihr wisst, wie ein Traffic Geld mit Mythos verdient oder ob sie damit Geld verdienen, lasst es uns gerne wissen. Ich glaube nicht.\n\nCool. Ich hab ja schon am Anfang gesagt, das ist eine sehr AI lastige Folge. Und bevor ich den Dennis erzählen lasse, was wir grade so mit AI machen, hab ich noch ein anderes kleines Thema, was da vielleicht reinpasst. Wir haben ja vor Kurzem auch zumindest die Folge darüber aufgenommen, wie ich auf der Google Cloud Next war und haben da son bisschen drüber gesprochen, die kommt ja auch bald raus. Ein kleines Tipp mit, was wir in der Folge nicht so erwähnt haben, aber was ich trotzdem interessant fand, war, ich hab länger mit den Jetbrains Jungs und Mädels gequatscht.\n\nIch glaub, es waren nur Jungs und haben über Juniy gesprochen. Juniy ist also deren Coding Agent und hat halt auch son son CLI TUI bekommen wie Cloud Code und Codex und Jamlike CLI und hast Du alles nicht gesehen. Und was sich da ganz interessant hat, was mir nicht so bewusst war, ist, dass alles, was Jetbrains aktuell grade so an AI Agent Capabilities baut, findet sich ja in vielen von ihren Produkten, also egal, was jetzt in der in der IDE ist, in diesen Webservices, die sie grade aufbauen, da ist ja viel recyceltes Zeug drin quasi. Deswegen macht's ja auch Sinn für sie, dass sie das so bauen, weil sie es an so vielen Stellen verwenden können. Aber sie entwickeln, testen und evaluieren das alles in dem Tool.\n\nSo, das heißt, wenn ihr wirklich mal so Edge AI Agents quasi von Jetbrains testen wollt, macht das am allermeisten Sinn, Junis Sale Eye zu benutzen. Ich will gar nicht sagen, dass Junis Sale besser ist als die anderen, aber jetzt nur im Jet Brain Space gesprochen, ist man quasi an der Stelle noch am weitesten vorne mit dabei, weil sie sagen, na ja, das ist halt am einfachsten, da reinzukriegen, ne. Du brauchst nicht viel UI drumherum, Du brauchst nicht viel Server Kleinkommunikation und deshalb testen sie das im Prinzip alles da. Und am meisten davon natürlich da in dem Juni Early Access Preview. Also wenn ihr euch das noch mal anschauen wollt, ich hab das bei mir jetzt auch noch mal installiert.\n\nUnd das macht schon 'n Unterschied noch mal zu dem AI Agent, den man jetzt so in den anderen Jetbrains IDs vielleicht auch findet. War mir nicht so bewusst, fand ich superinteressant, fand ich auch superinteressant, wie wir son bisschen über die Entwicklungsarbeit da gesprochen haben, vielleicht an der, an der anderen Stelle da noch mal mehr zu. Aber wenn ihr euch auch grade wieder 'n bisschen mehr mit Coding Agents beschäftigt und vielleicht da grade rum evaluiert und probiert,\n\nSpeaker 1: nicht ablassen wollt von dem den euren Altlasten rund Jet Brains.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber Moment, bist doch, Du bist doch son Kontaktor Mensch, oder? Du machst das doch alles mittlerweile da drin. Mhm. Und ist das ist das hart, hängt das hart an Cloud Code oder kannst Du da jedes CLI Dingsbums mitbenutzen?\n\nSpeaker 1: Du kannst nicht jede CLI Dingsbums mitbenutzen. Du kannst aktuell Codex und Cloud nutzen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Weil er, also weil er die APIs von denen direkt benutzt oder benutzt er schon das CLI Tool im Hintergrund irgendwie, das alles auszuführen?\n\nSpeaker 1: Nee, ich glaub eher, weil er die, ja, subscription nutzt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ah, okay. Weil sonst hätt ich gedacht, also wär ja so dieses ganze Multitasking, was Du mit Colleductor irgendwie machst, wär ja auch irgendwie cool, das mit mehreren unterschiedlichen Agents vielleicht mal so zu versuchen, weißt Du? Ja. Und dann son bisschen 'n Vergleichsgefühl dafür zu bekommen. Das ist ja das, wo ich ehrlicherweise immer son bisschen drüberstolper, egal ob ich jetzt mal Juni oder Germany oder was anderes halt wieder benutze.\n\nMan hat ja nicht so den 1 zu 1 Parallelenvergleich zwischen diesen 2 Tools. Man benutzt für die eine Aufgabe das und für die andere Aufgabe das und dann weiß man aber nie, lag's an der Aufgabe oder lag's an dem Agent oder\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Ja. Also ich mein, ich hab schon häufiger mal den gleichen Prompt und das gleiche Ding an das an unterschiedliche oder was auch immer geschmissen und geguckt, was mir da besser gefällt. Aber ist natürlich auch trotzdem nicht so richtig vergleichbar, weil Du dann wieder sagen kannst, ja, Modell x y braucht 'n bisschen andere und detailliert und weniger detailliert. Und trotzdem entspricht dir dann vielleicht mehr deiner Arbeitsweise oder deinem deiner Art, wie Du redest, kommunizierst, was auch immer.\n\nKann ja auch einfach dann sein, dass das 'n Match ist, der besser passt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, da haben wir auch drüber gesprochen, als wir mir son bisschen Julie noch mal schmackhaft machen wollten. Manchmal auch, es entsteht son gewisser, also ja eigentlich kein Wenderlog in, ne, weil Du bist ja keinster Weise da dran gezwungen, aber man lernt ja son bisschen auch schon dieses Prompton. Und ich hab jetzt auch so das Gefühl, wenn ich mit Cloud rede, fühlt es sich am, in Anführungszeichen, natürlichsten an. Aber ich hab keine Ahnung, ob es daran liegt, weil Cloud mich so gut versteht oder weil ich's so gut gelernt habe, quasi mit Cloud zu reden, so, ne. Schwräger Punkt.\n\nAber speaking of reden, Du hast ganz viel mit deinem Agent geredet und zwar im wahrsten Sinne des Wortes geredet. Wie kam es dazu und worüber hast Du mit ihm geredet?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich rede die ganze Zeit mit meinen meinen. Ich bin mir grade unsicher, auf was Du hinauswillst. Willst Du darüber hinaus, dass wir reden jetzt mittlerweile und wirst bei Flow nutzen oder möchtest Du darüber hinaus, was wir grade bei Lotum machen? Oder beides.\n\nSpeaker 0: Beides. Ich dachte, das wär 'n guter guter Opener für beides, so.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, wir haben uns heute überlegt, weil wir grade mittendrinstecken bei Lotum, nämlich in unserer vierten AI Week, dass wir einfach mal kurz darüber 'n bisschen plaudern, euch abzuholen oder mitzunehmen, wie das bei uns, wie wir das bei uns handeln, wie wir versuchen, AI weiter in unseren Alltag zu integrieren und da möglichst, ja, mit den neuesten neuesten Trends mithalten zu können. Und 1 dieser Trends, die uns im Moment ein bisschen einholt und auch natürlich ein bisschen Gewöhnung und irgendwie Umgang braucht, wie das mit vielen der neuen Arbeitsweisen so ist, ist Whisper Flow als Tool, haben wir's einfach eine, simpel ausgedrückt, eine Diktier App ist, die aber halt einfach in der Qualität so ist, dass sie dich versteht und Punkt. Also es gibt eigentlich nicht viel, was was man darüber noch sagen muss. So einfach alles, was Du reinsprichst, kommt so da raus. Es gibt noch zusätzlich dann, dass es automatisch verfeinert werden kann, dass es automatisch sich merkt, in welchem Programm Du welche Art von Sprech hast und dann entsprechend noch das son bisschen, was Du dann da reingesprochen hast, dass das eigentlich ja auch noch zusätzlich hübsch aussieht.\n\nDer ist son bisschen, ne, Du kannst auch einfach deine Gedanken teilen. Du kannst sagen, ach nee, das meinte ich grad nicht so und dann ersetzt er das son bisschen an der Stelle. Er kann dann Listen formatieren und so Dinge. Genau. Also von daher das vielleicht erst mal als grundsätzliche Empfehlung, kann man wahrscheinlich schon sagen.\n\nEs gibt einige hier im Unternehmen, die das sehr hart pushen und so sagen, hey, das ist 'n wahnsinniger Effizienzgewinn für Sie gewesen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich glaub, Fabi hat das auch schon dreimal in unterschiedlichsten Konstellationen als Pick of the day in sone DeepPipe Folge hier reingeschwungert.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Aber ja, also da sind's wirklich Leute, die da hart drauf schwirren. Und es bringt natürlich die Challenge mit sich. Also es ist halt bisschen weird, in sein Macbook reinzulabern so. Es ist nicht gesund zu flüstern über lange Zeiträume.\n\nDas heißt, es ist auch besser, seine normale Sprache zu nutzen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ist das\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Das war hier auch irgend eine interne Diskussion mit 1 Logopädin, die die das gesagt hat.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das wusste ich ja alles.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und ja, von daher son bisschen die Frage, also man will sich dann ja irgendwie auch nicht immer in ein Einzelbüros setzen, dann ist das Konzept der Büro- und Zusammenkommenarbeit irgendwie wieder son bisschen. Dahin, es fühlt sich erst mal halt weird an, wenn man auch, ne, seine Gedanken und sein vielleicht, ja, wie dumm prompt ich dieses Ding jetzt eigentlich grade und das kriegen ja jetzt Kolleginnen mit so, die das hören. Das ist sone gewisse Hemmschwelle, die man vielleicht am Anfang hat. Vielleicht, ich nutze es auch selbst noch nicht in in allen Situationen, aber auf jeden Fall ja, es kann schon es kann schon helfen. Was 1 der, also neben der Geschwindigkeit der Texteingabe ist für viele das Große so, Du kannst halt einfach labern und dieser Mehrkontext ist halt der, den Du in deinem Kopf hast und der ist halt einfach da.\n\nUnd wenn Du's sonst in Text verfasst, dann reduzierst Du's auf jeden Fall schon und nimmst irgendwie Dinge raus, die Du eigentlich noch in deinem Kopf mit dazu hattest. Und das führt einfach dazu, dass mehr Kontext und mehr deine Gedanken bei den Agents landen. Genau. Das als kurzen Ausflug zu zu Whisperflow, was jetzt durch eine, also ich glaub, wir haben jetzt in dem Team irgendwie 20, 25 Leute, also es sind wahrscheinlich schon so die Hälfte der Hälfte der Firma innerhalb weniger Wochen da aufgesprungen auf diesen auf diesen Zug. Ja, und apropos Aufspringen, wir haben jetzt schon das vierte Mal eine sogenannte AI Week bei Lotum, wo wir uns einfach komplett das Projekt- und Tagesgeschäft pausieren und jeder die Freiheit hat, die ganze Woche lang an AI Themen zu arbeiten.\n\nUnd jetzt ist natürlich die Frage, okay, was bedeutet das? Was sind die AI Themen? Und es gibt sehr wenige Vorgaben, die wir dort machen und wir hatten sehr, sehr unterschiedliche AI Weeks in der Vergangenheit. Also die haben alle son bisschen den Fokus gehabt. Ich glaub, die Erste war vor, ist ja nie wanni war, ob die vor 2 Jahren vielleicht so\n\nSpeaker 0: war oder was Die Erste? Wissen nicht so\n\nSpeaker 1: lang her.\n\nSpeaker 0: Bevor ich dabei war. Also ich muss schon tatsächlich 3 Jahre her sein. Okay. Ja, ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Da war es halt so, okay, man hatte die ersten Ideen, das war alles ganz spannend, wenn man das irgendwie ausprobiert und ist an ganz vielen Dingen noch irgendwie gescheitert. Die Dritte ist gar nicht so lange her, die ist 'n paar Monate her. Da war dann so sehr beeindruckend, okay, es geht jetzt richtig viel und vor allen Dingen in allen möglichen Bereichen. Das heißt, wir hatten vorher so der Dev Bereich hatte eine Cloud Lizenz und danach hatten wir irgendwie dann 100 Prozent, hatte hier irgendwie dann Claude am Start und hat sich eigene Tools und und Skripts geschrieben. Und das hat halt einfach, also beeindruckend zu sehen für mich, wie viel das noch mal gepusht hat so einfach im ganzen Unternehmen, obwohl wir vorher schon das Gefühl hatten, wir sind jetzt nicht ganz weit hinten dran und wir sind schon einigermaßen up to date.\n\nAber diese Freiheime einfach noch mal zu haben, sich mit allen möglichen Leuten auszutauschen, zu wissen, die anderen haben grade auch nix anderes im im Sinn und Kopf, außer dieses Thema ist superhilfreich. Und da sind viele, viele kleine Tools, viele Apps entstanden, teilweise natürlich irgendwie so als Mittel zum Zweck, ne, dass man irgendwie was hat, mal was auszuprobieren. Und dadurch haben sich natürlich auch ganz neue ganz neue ja etabliert. Ich glaub, haben wir hier im Podcast auch noch nie noch nicht so groß thematisiert, wir sind in einem Projekt, was wir gerade machen, ein Spiel, was wir neu entwickeln, also kein kein Bestandsgame. Da sind wir jetzt einen sehr radikalen Weg gegangen vor 3 Monaten, denn in der letzten AI Week hat der Game Lead Lars dort einen Prototypen, wie nennt man das jetzt?\n\nBank, ist das noch? Nee, das ist dann eher, ne. Also Also für\n\nSpeaker 0: ihn ist es ja, weil er hat's ja gar nicht damit beschäftigt, eigentlich.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau. Also Und da war son bisschen erschreckend, wie schnell das auf 1 Qualität war, die sehr ähnlich dem eigentlichen Projekt, was in entwickelt wurde, irgendwie ähnelte in in dann Webtechnik\n\nSpeaker 0: Zumindest dann außen hin so\n\nSpeaker 1: für den User. Ja. Ja, ja, ja, genau. Ja. Intern war's eine Riesen, also es war praktisch eine Datei irgendwie 3000 Codes, so ordentlich ordentlich kaputt.\n\nAber es hat natürlich trotz der Diskussionen irgendwie bei uns ausgelöst, okay, wenn das in dieser Zeit geht und wir wollen irgendwelche ersten Sachen testen und irgendwelche Features testen oder so was, ist das nicht eine Qualität, die ausreicht, das machen zu können? Und dann gab's viele Gespräche darüber und Abwägung und am Ende haben wir gesagt, lass uns mal diesen sehr radikalen Weg gehen. Er ist jetzt nicht ganz so radikal, dass wir sagen, okay, wir gucken gar nicht in den Code, aber man muss schon sagen, es ist so, dass uns die Codequalität in Anführungsstrichen egal ist und Anführungsstriche bedeutet halt, solange irgendwie das Ding noch mit Agents bedienbar ist. Das heißt, was schon passiert ist, dass dann die Devs, die hier ran, in dem Projekt dran sind, versucht haben, diesen Prototyp 'n bisschen modularer zu machen und einfach son bisschen aufzuräumen, zu gucken, dass das dass eben nutzbar ist. Und am Ende jetzt die Aufgabe haben, okay, wir sorgen dafür, dass durch Tests, durch durch Dinge, die einfach an dem Projekt gegeben sind, wir die Möglichkeit haben, dass jeder an den Dingen rumprompen kann, der in diesem Projektteam ist.\n\nUnd das ist dann nicht nur der Gamlead, das ist dann das sind die Designer*innen, das ist aber auch Content und Sound und natürlich die selbst. Das heißt, alle Gewerke, die wir so vorher dann einzeln hatten, sind jetzt an der echten Code Base und prompt ja, Agents, die dort Änderungen machen. Und bis jetzt fühlt sich das supergut an. Natürlich ähnliche Herausforderungen wie alles in AI. Also das heißt son bisschen Mental Overload und Gefahr, da ein bisschen zu viel zu machen, ist auf jeden Fall gegeben.\n\nJa, also das war jetzt noch mal 'n Exkurs sozusagen, 1 der Projekte, ein konkretes Beispiel sozusagen, okay, das ist entsprungen aus der der letzten AI Week. Und ja, da stecken wir grade wieder mittendrin. Jan und ich, wir sind beide an einem an einem Prototypen meines Spiels tatsächlich auch so zu gucken, okay, das ist AI First gedacht, also was was ginge vorher oder was geht vorher nicht? Was ist jetzt nur möglich dadurch, dass wir so was wie haben, mit denen man interagieren kann. Und nächste Woche haben wir dann das dazu.\n\nDas heißt, da wird man 'n bisschen sehen, was überall passiert ist und mit Sicherheit auch spüren, ja, was das so für 'n nächster Schub war. Was diesmal weniger war in der letzten fand ich auch sehr spannend. In der letzten waren viele so Diskussion, Diskussionsthemen, die auch angebracht wurden, wo wir über son bisschen ethische Seiten von a I, wie wollen wir das irgendwie als Unternehmen? Wie wohl fühlen wir uns damit? Mit welchen Anbietern?\n\nWas ist das son bisschen? Natürlich auch Ängste, die mit verknüpft sind. Was bedeutet das für unsere Rollen? Auch über die Rollen gesprochen. Was ist das, was bedeutet das für unsere Stellenausschreibungen?\n\nWas bedeutet das für die Profile, die wir haben? Also all das, was sich im Moment halt so krass ändert, das irgendwie son bisschen zu zu bündeln und gemeinsam zu erforschen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, ich glaub, das spielt aber auch rein, dass, was ja selber gesagt, die letzte AI Week war vor 3 oder 4 Monaten oder so was, ne. Und da hat sich ja prinzipiell an dem, was wir da in diesen ganzen Diskussionsrunden angesprochen haben, nicht so viel geändert, ne. Also alles, was man damals an ethischen Bedenken oder Hoffnungen haben konnte, hat man heute, glaub ich, immer noch. Alle Fragen, die sich in Bezug auf Recruitingstellen sind quasi noch dieselben in den letzten 3 Monaten, ne. Nicht, dass viel passiert ist, aber ich glaube, es ist halt viel auf technischer Front passiert.\n\nUnd auf, ich sag mal, prinzipieller Front sozusagen hat sich ja jetzt nicht so viel getan so, ja. Ja. Und vielleicht ist es ja auch einfach 'n gutes Zeichen, dass wir viel von den Sachen adressiert haben und jetzt nicht so der da war, die direkt noch mal rauszuholen, ja. Und und noch mal irgendwie über Hiring Impact oder so was zu sprechen. Und es gab ja schon, also 'n paar kleinere Diskussionsrunden gab's.\n\nIch war in der mit mit Benny und und Sven und Jens und so, wo wir son bisschen über, was sind denn eigentlich AI First Spieletitel? Wie kann das aussehen und gibt's das überhaupt? Und so, halt son bisschen mehr auf auf Produktebene vielleicht so darüber diskutiert haben, ja. Aber ja, diese diese Grundsatzdiskussion hatten wir, glaub ich, dieses Mal weniger und ich find das auch okay so.\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay, ja, nee, absolut. Aber genau. Und so hat halt jede, die wir bis jetzt hatten, irgendwie so ihren eigenen Touch, ging irgendwo in eine in eine bestimmte Richtung, hat an verschiedenen Stellen irgendwie Dinge bewirkt. Aber bis jetzt war es immer sehr, sehr, sehr, also es hat der ganzen den ganzen Unternehmen 'n ordentlichen Schub noch mal verpasst, obwohl wir im Alltag uns schon sehr viel Zeit und Raum geben und nehmen für AI und die Weiterentwicklung, ja. Und das ist halt irgendwo, ja, genau.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wir haben ja vor einiger Zeit schon eine Folge gemacht zu Hackathons und Gamejams und so was wir ja schon viel früher vor der AI Week gemacht haben. Also die berühmte Folge mit dem Hackfleisch Cover. Was würdest Du denn sagen, ist denn jetzt der Unterschied für dich zu 'nem Game Jam vielleicht oder 'n Hackathon Woche, die wir ja schon x-gemacht haben vorher, zu der AI Week, weil jetzt so unseren Spieleprototyp zum Beispiel, den hätten wir ja auch in 'nem Game Jam bauen können.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das ist richtig, ja. Und das ist ja auch explizit, was wir so diesmal im Framing auch gesagt haben, dass das auch völlig in Ordnung ist, ne. Also wenn jetzt Spielideen oder andere Dinge, die halt vorher in 'nem Gamebo stattgefunden haben, dass die jetzt auch in der AI Week stattfinden. Und klar, da vielleicht noch mal mehr explorieren, was ist so an der Grenze des Machbaren? Was ist der Unterschied, den AI dort auch macht, dass man da 'n bisschen mehr den Fokus drauf legt?\n\nAber ja, deswegen ist es ist es explizit halt so offen gestaltet, dass das grundsätzlich passieren kann. Ich glaub, insgesamt ist es halt, und das wird sich auch ändern. Also ich mein tendenziell, ich weiß es nicht, vielleicht ist der Gedanke ja, dass man halt, also ne, irgendwie eher so immer dann in dem Modus irgendwann ist. Aktuell sind das alles noch Neuerungen und man muss abholen. Es gibt, ne, immer was Neues zu entdecken.\n\nHoffentlich sind wir ja dann irgendwann so weit, dass das einfach auch der Alltag ist, in in dem wir uns irgendwie bewegen und man dann vielleicht wieder ein anderes ein anderes Format finden muss. Aber so gesehen würd ich sagen, es hat 'n größeren Impact auf den Alltag aktuell. Also während der Gamegam vielleicht 'n bisschen isolierter war und vielleicht auch mal ein Spiel draus gekommen ist, was wir dann weiterentwickelt haben, ne, und und irgendwie versucht haben, sonem Produkt zu machen, ist es bei der AI Week eher son bisschen, dass es tiefer in die Prozesse und in die Gedanken und die in die Zusammenarbeit so eingreift, die wir danach haben und ja, im besten Fall so den den Alltag von allen ein bisschen erleichtert, verbessert, wie auch immer. Das seh ich so als als als Hauptunterschied. Und vor allen Dingen aber auch gedanklich zeigt und das ist etwas, wenn man über den ganzen Transformationsprozess irgendwie nachdenkt, wie wie, also wie wie kann man sich da als Unternehmen irgendwie weiterentwickeln und das irgendwie attraktiv und spannend gestalten für die Mitarbeitenden.\n\nDas, was wir immer wieder beobachtet haben, wenn Du ein konkretes Beispiel aus deiner Bubble hast, das Du zeigen kannst, wo ein Use Case ist, der funktioniert hat, der ist tausendmal mehr wert als irgendein Marketingvideo von von 'nem neuen AI Tool und das treibt so die Adoption am meisten. Also einfach irgendwie Use Cases, reale Dinge, die hier passieren, die in unserem Kontext sind, die einen echten Impact haben so, Das ist das, was dann auf die anderen abfärbt und wo sie sagen, ach krass, wenn das funktioniert hat bei uns, na ja, gut sein, wird das und das auch funktionieren. Ja, und das kommt natürlich stark dadurch, ne, dass jetzt jeder teilt, was er macht, was die Möglichkeiten waren, wo die Grenzen sind Und das sehr, dieses sehr Theoretische, was man halt in Blogbeiträgen und so weiter sich lesen kann, sehr in die Praxis holt. Wie sieht es denn bei uns aus? Was sind denn unsere Limitierungen?\n\nWas sind denn unsere Grenzen von dem, was aktuell möglich ist?\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich würd das unterschreiben und gleichzeitig noch son bisschen relativieren. Weil ich glaub schon, das, was Du gesagt hast, ist richtig. Aber ich glaube, man kann das auch kleiner machen. Also wahrscheinlich, oder gibt bei uns auch genug Beispiele, wo derselbe Effekt auch eintritt, wenn jemand das einfach nur mit 'nem persönlichen Thema irgendwie hat, ne. Also ein Beispiel wär jetzt unser unser Office Managementteam hat irgendwie eine App gebaut, die die Maintenance und Care für unsere Pflanzen zu automatisieren so, ja?\n\nDas war son sehr kleiner, sehr isolierter Use Case, aber es hat halt für sie supergut funktioniert. Und das war 'n Erfolgserlebnis und deswegen kümmern sie sich jetzt auch mithilfe von AI größere Probleme. Wenn wir jetzt da unsere Buchungsplattform irgendwie grade da selber bauen so, ne, das ist ja schon 'n Step Change dann so. Aber wir sehen auch bei manch anderen, die sich, weiß ich nicht, also zu Hause halt irgendwie mit 'nem Thema beschäftigen und da halt so was gelöst haben oder 'n Erfolgserlebnis hatten. Und es hat auch schon reicht in Anführungszeichen, son Katalysator zu sein, dann halt das mitzubringen in die Firma, ins Team und dann zu sagen, guck mal, ich hab hier das gemacht und das auch.\n\nAlso man muss gar nicht, glaub ich, immer nur und ich glaub, den Anspruch haben wir auch zumindest in der AI Week nicht, nicht immer nur die großen Probleme von der Firma lösen. Ich glaub, es reicht einfach, wenn Du irgendeine Art von Erfolgserlebnis so hast, ja. Also ich weiß nicht, Du kannst gefühlt sich jede Woche mit Benny an den Tisch setzen bei uns beim Mittagessen und er erzählt dir, was er zu Hause grade wieder mit irgend 'nem AI Projekt gemacht hat oder mit Richard oder so, ja. Und das ist, glaub ich, mindestens genauso wichtig. Und deshalb find ich's auch immer gut, ne, wenn wir halt sagen, experimentiert halt damit.\n\nUnd das das muss jetzt nicht am aktuellen Produkt hängen. Es muss auch nicht unbedingt das nächste Spiel irgendwie rauskommen, aber es muss halt für euch irgendwie was sein, was was funktioniert so. Ja, und selbst, wenn's manchmal nicht funktioniert, kann man ja auch was draus lernen. Aber am Ende ist, glaub ich, so das das Entscheidende, dass man son son Erlebnis irgendwie geschaffen hat. Ja.\n\nJa. Geschaffen hat. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, also genau, wenn ihr irgendwie auch da noch mal spezifischere Fragen habt oder das bei euch machen wollt, aber irgendwelche Hürden habt oder so, könnt ihr euch hier gerne melden, wenn wir da irgendwo mit Erfahrungsberichten unterstützen können und erreichen. Dann das\n\nSpeaker 0: kommt zu euch und veranstaltet AI Weeks on demand. Ach,\n\nSpeaker 1: so für Einzelunternehmen. Kann ich das mal machen?\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Echt, das da schon, da kann man schon profitieren.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, das stimmt. Fantastisch. Zurück zum Projekt. Eigentlich darf so was nämlich nicht passieren. Das ist vielleicht auch noch an der Stelle.\n\nDiese diese Podcastaufnahme hier ist eigentlich komplett gegen das Konzept, das wir haben. Deswegen immerhin gut, dass wir heute viel über AI geredet haben, weil sonst soll man sich nämlich alles aus dem Kalender streichen. Und dass wir hier grade sitzen und nicht in unserem AI We Projekt arbeiten, ist eigentlich schon fatal.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich mein, wir sind auch nur 2 von den sonst üblichen 5. Also ich weiß, die anderen so, Dave akut rausgattern, sonst üblichen Fünfer. Also ich weiß, die anderen so, Dave akut raus, guddelt erst mal raus, Fabi Fragezeichen, was er grade tut. Ja. Also, schau.\n\nDas stimmt. Ich hab zum Abschluss noch 2 ganz kleine Punkte. Der eine ist mir gestern Abend aufgefallen, und zwar gibt's eine neue Dokumentation von unseren Freunden bei CultureRIPO, die sich ja immer die Themen kümmern, wo Dennis jetzt sagt, das interessiert doch heute gar keinen mehr, wie mal son Framework irgendwie entstanden ist. Ah. Das muss man gar nicht mehr wissen.\n\nDas reicht, wenn deine AI das weiß, wie man das benutzt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aha. Ja, erzähl's mir weiter.\n\nSpeaker 0: Dann relativ ich\n\nSpeaker 1: das noch mal.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Okay. Auf alle Fälle, es geht in der aktuellen Doku Spring und Java. Sie sprechen mit Rod Johnson und Jürgen Höller, die da so die die Köpfe hinter springen sind. Und ich find das 'n sehr cooles Beispiel, weil viele von den Frameworks, die wir aktuell nutzen, wenn man an Lara Well denkt und auch viel, was grade in der No JS Welt passiert, die haben halt so ihre ihre Wurzeln im Springen, ja.\n\nDa sind irgendwie viele Konzepte das erste Mal richtig gedacht worden. Inversion of Control, Dependency Injection, Model View Controller bla bla bla. Von daher, wenn man sich einfach dafür interessiert, warum manche Frameworkentscheidungen so getroffen worden sind, wie sie getroffen worden sind, was der Hintergrund war, warum das notwendig war, Sehr coole Doku, kann ich nur empfehlen. Und bevor ich meinen zweiten Punkt mach, darf Dennis jetzt noch was dazu sagen?\n\nSpeaker 1: Mein erster Impuls war auch direkt mir jetzt mal so innerlich so. Danke. Jakob. Wurzel braucht's ja nicht mehr. Aber ich mein, ist es ja, wie Du schon sagst, sone Dokumentation über, ne, wie wir's entstanden oder so.\n\nDas das finde ich, hat noch eine Relevanz und ist interessant, wie so Dinge entstanden werden sind. Und ja, die gibt es vielleicht zu einem Framework nicht mehr in 5 Jahren, sondern dann eben halt, wieso hat sich Cloud so entwickelt, wie's sich entwickelt hat oder so? Das wird sich anpassen, aber ja, die die Relevanz oder interessant kann ich's mir trotzdem vorstellen, auch wenn Du heute dich nicht mehr von Spring inspirieren lässt, 'n neues Framework zu bauen. Und auch die Leute gibt es ja noch zurecht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Genau. Das dazu würd ich auch so unterschreiben. Und mein zweiter Punkt ist eigentlich mehr son Aufruf. Wir haben, ich weiß gar nicht, mit wem hier beim Mittagessen vor 'n paar Wochen son Quatsch und haben son bisschen darüber gesprochen oder beim Meet-up, wie eigentlich so akademische Ausbildung von Informatikerinnen grade aussieht in in Zeiten von AI und haben da son bisschen philosophiert, was es denn da braucht und was da funktioniert und was da vielleicht nicht funktionieren könnte und ne.\n\nAlso wie finden auch junge Menschen irgendwie 'n Weg jetzt in diesen Arbeitsmarkt rein, wo sie vielleicht als, überspitzt gesagt, als Junior darf nicht gebraucht werden, weil jedes LLM ähnlich gut schon funktioniert, ja, ob man das an sich jetzt zahlt oder nicht, sei mal dahingestellt, aber das ist ja so die große Sorge. Und da würde ich unglaublich gerne mal mit jemandem darüber reden, der vielleicht an der Uni arbeitet und da irgendwie für Kurse verantwortlich ist, da Dozent ist, whatever. Wenn ihr da jemanden kennt, der da entweder sehr engagiert ist und vielleicht gerne darüber reden will oder selber so jemand seid, dann schickt uns doch gerne mal eine E-Mail an Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar, weil ich glaube, das wär 'n super spannendes Gespräch und auch superwertvoll für viele Leute da draußen. Das nur als kleiner Aufruf und damit sind wir schon fertig für heute. So.\n\nEntspannte 40 Minuten zu zweit, wie immer, Dennis und ich bin besonders schnell. So. Und jetzt kümmern wir uns ganz schnell wieder unser AI Week Projekt und wünschen euch eine schöne Restwoche, schöne Feiertag und wir hören uns nächste Woche wieder. Bis denn Mach's doch.\n\nSpeaker 1: Vielen Dank. Tschau.",[20530,20537,20543,20550,20559,20569,20574,20582,20587,20594,20600,20603,20607,20613,20617,20624,20629,20642,20651,20656,20660,20671,20684,20689,20698,20704,20707,20719,20732,20745,20758,20771,20784,20797,20810,20823,20832,20842,20846,20851,20862,20871,20884,20888,20897,20909,20914,20925,20938,20943,20949,20960,20966,20971,20982,20994,21007,21020,21028,21033,21043,21050,21054,21059,21071,21077,21088,21092,21104,21111,21121,21127,21140,21151,21155,21160,21171,21175,21179,21185,21189,21202,21214,21227,21234,21238,21246,21259,21272,21280,21284,21289,21293,21303,21316,21329,21341,21354,21367,21373,21385,21396,21407,21420,21428,21440,21453,21466,21479,21483,21495,21508,21521,21533,21539,21545,21550,21556,21561,21572,21580,21592,21604,21608,21613,21617,21621,21631,21641,21652,21662,21672,21684,21694],{"sentences":20531,"speaker":109,"num_words":20536,"start":106,"end":310},[20532,20534],{"text":20533,"start":106,"end":241},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu 1 neuen Newsausgabe der Programmierbar, heute in Kalenderwoche 20, 26 und heute in 1 sehr, fast hätte ich klein gesagt, aber in 1 sehr effizienten Besetzung vielleicht heute im Studio.",{"text":20535,"start":246,"end":310},"Für euch hier vorm Mikro wie immer einmal der Jan und mir gegenüber im virtuellen Studio sitzt der",53,{"sentences":20538,"speaker":88,"num_words":20542,"start":314,"end":324},[20539,20541],{"text":20540,"start":314,"end":320},"Dennis Becker.",{"text":325,"start":320,"end":324},3,{"sentences":20544,"speaker":109,"num_words":20549,"start":328,"end":367},[20545,20547],{"text":20546,"start":328,"end":337},"Moin moin Dennis.",{"text":20548,"start":337,"end":367},"Ja, Dave Wann hast Du eigentlich",9,{"sentences":20551,"speaker":88,"num_words":20558,"start":367,"end":469},[20552,20554,20556],{"text":20553,"start":367,"end":391},"eigentlich aufgehört, deinen Nachnamen zu nennen?",{"text":20555,"start":391,"end":421},"Jetzt fühlt man sich immer so so komisch.",{"text":20557,"start":421,"end":469},"Du hast das einfach ohne Absprache, wirst Du wieder auf deinen Vornamen gesprungen?",27,{"sentences":20560,"speaker":109,"num_words":20568,"start":473,"end":710},[20561,20563,20564,20566],{"text":20562,"start":473,"end":548},"Ich hab, also ich hab das, glaub ich, zweimal gemacht, das kam mir komisch vor und dann dachte ich, ich mach das nicht.",{"text":556,"start":552,"end":553},{"text":20565,"start":553,"end":582},"Ihr habt ihr habt alle so so kurze Namen.",{"text":20567,"start":582,"end":710},"Bei euch klingt das halt, weißt Du, wenn eine Garelt Mogre oder das, das klingt halt so prägnant, aber wenn Du halt 2 Vornamen und 2 Nachnamen hast, da heißt der halbe Podcast rum, bis ich fertig bin.",71,{"sentences":20570,"speaker":88,"num_words":20542,"start":714,"end":724},[20571,20572],{"text":556,"start":714,"end":715},{"text":20573,"start":719,"end":724},"Sehr gut.",{"sentences":20575,"speaker":109,"num_words":20581,"start":727,"end":751},[20576,20578,20580],{"text":20577,"start":727,"end":739},"Das irgendwie, ja.",{"text":20579,"start":744,"end":748},"Weiß nicht.",{"text":753,"start":748,"end":751},6,{"sentences":20583,"speaker":88,"num_words":20586,"start":756,"end":761},[20584],{"text":20585,"start":756,"end":761},"Na gut.",2,{"sentences":20588,"speaker":109,"num_words":20568,"start":761,"end":993},[20589,20591,20592],{"text":20590,"start":761,"end":925},"Wenn wenn da draußen die Leute wissen wollen, wie ich heiße, sie könnt mich gerne fragen, sie könnt's gerne auf der Webseite nachlesen oder wenn sie finden, ich sollte es jedes Mal sagen, können sie mir gerne böse E-Mails schreiben und vielleicht passen wir das dann noch an.",{"text":933,"start":929,"end":930},{"text":20593,"start":930,"end":993},"Aber wenn Du schon das Spotlight so auf mich gerichtet hast, weißt Du, warum das heute eine besondere Folge für mich ist?",{"sentences":20595,"speaker":88,"num_words":20599,"start":997,"end":1008},[20596,20597],{"text":1001,"start":997,"end":998},{"text":20598,"start":998,"end":1008},"Das ist die",4,{"sentences":20601,"speaker":109,"num_words":88,"start":1010,"end":1011},[20602],{"text":1001,"start":1010,"end":1011},{"sentences":20604,"speaker":88,"num_words":20599,"start":1016,"end":1027},[20605],{"text":20606,"start":1016,"end":1027},"X-te Folge für dich.",{"sentences":20608,"speaker":109,"num_words":20581,"start":1031,"end":1058},[20609,20611],{"text":20610,"start":1031,"end":1042},"Das, nah dran.",{"text":20612,"start":1047,"end":1058},"Wäre sone Chance?",{"sentences":20614,"speaker":88,"num_words":20542,"start":1062,"end":1070},[20615],{"text":20616,"start":1062,"end":1070},"Du hast Jahresjubiläum.",{"sentences":20618,"speaker":109,"num_words":20623,"start":1074,"end":1125},[20619,20621],{"text":20620,"start":1074,"end":1080},"Das, nein.",{"text":20622,"start":1084,"end":1125},"Es ist so, dass ich quasi die Hälfte der programmierbar Folgen jetzt miterlebt hab.",16,{"sentences":20625,"speaker":88,"num_words":20628,"start":1128,"end":1169},[20626],{"text":20627,"start":1128,"end":1169},"Also also miterlebt ist, ist in deiner Zeit entstanden oder Ja, also ich",13,{"sentences":20630,"speaker":109,"num_words":20641,"start":1169,"end":1372},[20631,20633,20635,20637,20639],{"text":20632,"start":1169,"end":1200},"war ja natürlich nicht in der Hälfte der Folgen dabei, so.",{"text":20634,"start":1200,"end":1236},"Das das wär, glaub ich, 'n bisschen bisschen krass noch.",{"text":20636,"start":1236,"end":1290},"Aber zumindest, genau, hab ich die Hälfte der programmierbarfolgen miterlebt und den den Prozess dahinter begleitet und so.",{"text":20638,"start":1290,"end":1309},"Und das hat mich son bisschen überrascht.",{"text":20640,"start":1309,"end":1372},"Ich hab das neulich wegen was anderem nachgeguckt, weil die Programmier ist ja schon 'n paar Jährchen älter.",64,{"sentences":20643,"speaker":109,"num_words":20650,"start":1376,"end":1611},[20644,20645,20647,20648],{"text":933,"start":1376,"end":1377},{"text":20646,"start":1377,"end":1496},"Und dass wir's quasi geschafft haben, aber in den letzten zweieinhalb, bald 3 Jahren quasi die Hälfte der Folgen aus den gesamten 8 Jahren und 'n paar Zerquetschten irgendwie zu produzieren, das fand ich schon, ist schon cool.",{"text":1503,"start":1499,"end":1500},{"text":20649,"start":1506,"end":1611},"Anyway, wir wollen ja eigentlich nicht hier über mich reden, sondern reden wir über dich, Dennis, weil ich bin ja nicht da am einundzwanzigsten, aber Du bist da und am einundzwanzigsten Mai passiert was in Bad Nauheim?",77,{"sentences":20652,"speaker":88,"num_words":20655,"start":1615,"end":1631},[20653],{"text":20654,"start":1615,"end":1631},"Das beste Meet-up aller Zeiten.",5,{"sentences":20657,"speaker":109,"num_words":20655,"start":1635,"end":1646},[20658],{"text":20659,"start":1635,"end":1646},"So wie jedes Mal eigentlich.",{"sentences":20661,"speaker":88,"num_words":20670,"start":1646,"end":1828},[20662,20664,20666,20668],{"text":20663,"start":1646,"end":1674},"So wie jedes Mal hat wieder lädt wieder ein.",{"text":20665,"start":1674,"end":1731},"Ja, kommt gerne vorbei zum World Accessibility Day, den wir auch in der Programmierbar ein Thema widmen.",{"text":20667,"start":1735,"end":1759},"Und zwar wird Raulden uns etwas erzählen.",{"text":20669,"start":1762,"end":1828},"Jetzt erwischen wir natürlich aufm kalt Fuß, sich den genauen Titel nicht aufm Schirm, aber den kannst Du bestimmt jetzt nachreichen.",54,{"sentences":20672,"speaker":109,"num_words":20683,"start":1832,"end":1981},[20673,20675,20677,20679,20681],{"text":20674,"start":1832,"end":1855},"Titel ist, glaub ich, auch an der Stelle zweitrangig.",{"text":20676,"start":1859,"end":1867},"Es geht Accessibility.",{"text":20678,"start":1871,"end":1891},"Es geht darum, wie man das selber anwendet.",{"text":20680,"start":1891,"end":1930},"Es geht darum, dass es in bestehenden Anwendungen auch nicht immer son Problem ist.",{"text":20682,"start":1930,"end":1981},"Und so wie er mir den Talk gepitcht hat, wird das, glaub ich, auch einfach superlustig.",50,{"sentences":20685,"speaker":109,"num_words":20688,"start":1985,"end":2098},[20686],{"text":20687,"start":1985,"end":2098},"Also, ich glaub, manchmal haben die Leute son bisschen Sorge vor sonem vielleicht etwas trockenen Thema, aber er hat da 'n echt cooles Format gefunden und ich, es tut mir leid, dass ich da bin, aber ich bin was er erzählt.",41,{"sentences":20690,"speaker":88,"num_words":20697,"start":2101,"end":2264},[20691,20693,20695],{"text":20692,"start":2101,"end":2136},"Ja, ob es dann so, na, ich will nicht zu viel teasern.",{"text":20694,"start":2136,"end":2187},"Okay, ja, lassen wir's lassen wir's also, ich hab nämlich auch mit ihm kurz gesprochen.",{"text":20696,"start":2191,"end":2264},"Ja, am nächsten Donnerstag wie immer, Getränke und Essen for free und kommt gerne vorbei, wenn dir im Rhein Main Gebiet sitzt.",49,{"sentences":20699,"speaker":109,"num_words":20703,"start":2270,"end":2336},[20700,20701],{"text":2274,"start":2270,"end":2271},{"text":20702,"start":2276,"end":2336},"Und damit stützen wir uns direkt in die Themen, die wir gar nicht aufgefüllt haben, weil wir direkt an Namen uns aufgehängt haben.",24,{"sentences":20705,"speaker":88,"num_words":88,"start":2336,"end":2340},[20706],{"text":2342,"start":2336,"end":2340},{"sentences":20708,"speaker":109,"num_words":20718,"start":2340,"end":2686},[20709,20711,20713,20715,20717],{"text":20710,"start":2340,"end":2390},"Aber wir wollen heute einmal sprechen über und, was es da seit dem letzten Update so gab.",{"text":20712,"start":2390,"end":2442},"Und wir sprechen ein bisschen über AI und Development allgemein, aber da verraten wir vielleicht noch nicht so viel dazu.",{"text":20714,"start":2445,"end":2527},"Ich hab mich ein bisschen eingelesen, ihr hattet ja in den letzten oder vorletzten, vorletzten eigenes müsste es, glaub ich, schon gewesen sein, ne, auch über Methhos gesprochen.",{"text":20716,"start":2527,"end":2682},"Und da war's, glaub ich, noch relativ neu und diese Ankündigung, so, na ja, wir halten das für so ein sehr potentes Modell und wir quasi machen's erst mal 1 sehr kleinen Gruppe von Firmenentwicklerinnen, wie auch immer zugänglich, weil das halt auch in den falschen Händen viel Schaden anrichten kann.",{"text":1503,"start":2685,"end":2686},117,{"sentences":20720,"speaker":109,"num_words":20731,"start":2686,"end":3024},[20721,20723,20725,20727,20729],{"text":20722,"start":2686,"end":2772},"So und seitdem haben natürlich 'n paar von diesen Leuten, die das Privileg hatten, damit arbeiten zu können zu dürfen, so ihre Erfahrungen geteilt und ihre Einschätzung.",{"text":20724,"start":2776,"end":2892},"Und das ist, glaub ich, das viel interessantere, weil ihr habt ja auch in der Folge son bisschen darüber diskutiert, wie viel Marketing und Hype das halt am Ende so ist, dieses Vorgehen, das nur son paar Leuten zu geben und so weiter.",{"text":20726,"start":2896,"end":2916},"Oder oder wie berechtigt das am Ende dann war.",{"text":20728,"start":2919,"end":2980},"Und vielleicht, was sich gezeigt hat, ist, also es ist schon deutlich, deutlich besser als das, was so vorher da war.",{"text":20730,"start":2980,"end":3024},"Das ist, glaub ich, schon der Tenor von all den, das, was so vorher da war.",116,{"sentences":20733,"speaker":109,"num_words":20744,"start":3024,"end":3761},[20734,20736,20738,20740,20742],{"text":20735,"start":3024,"end":3073},"Das ist, glaub ich, schon der Tenor von all den Blogbeiträgen und Assets, die ich darüber gefunden hab.",{"text":20737,"start":3073,"end":3205},"Alle Leute, die das probiert haben, haben gesagt, ja, es ist schon cooler, weil es a weniger falsch positive Treffer liefert und weil es b quasi schafft, längere Exploits zu finden, also Exploits zu finden, die quasi nur funktionieren, weil Du mehrere hintereinander hängst.",{"text":20739,"start":3209,"end":3354},"Und nicht einfach nur, weil Du jetzt eine Stelle im Code identifiziert hast, wo 'n Overflow Error drin ist oder 'n Escape hier oder so was da, sondern halt schaffen okay zu sagen, okay, wenn Du diese 5 Sachen hintereinander hängst, dann weiß ich nicht, dass Du auf einmal oder so was.",{"text":20741,"start":3357,"end":3510},"Was allerdings auch rausgekommen ist, nachdem ja mittlerweile auch GPT 5 5 veröffentlicht wurde, ist, dass die Leute, die das son bisschen gebanchmarket haben, gesagt haben, na ja, auch GPT 5 5 ist ähnlich gut darin, diese Art von Exploits zu finden und diese Art von falsch positiven Treffern eben auszuschließen, ja.",{"text":20743,"start":3513,"end":3761},"Und das lässt halt am Ende auch son bisschen an dieser ganzen Marketiennummer von Intropic zweifeln, weil der ganze Hype Mytheus vielleicht gar nicht darin begründet ist, dass das als Modell jetzt so bahnbrechend anders ist, sondern dass einfach der allgemeine Model Fortschritt, der halt eben auch in GPT 5 5 ist, ne, mit Länge an Superwaise laufen zu lassen, irgendwie akkurater mit dem Kontextfenster umzugehen und so was alles, dass das halt einfach maßgeblich dazu beiträgt, auch eben in diesem Security Bereich besser zu sein, so.",253,{"sentences":20746,"speaker":109,"num_words":20757,"start":3763,"end":4023},[20747,20749,20751,20753,20755],{"text":20748,"start":3763,"end":3776},"Von daher schauen wir mal.",{"text":20750,"start":3779,"end":3874},"Es gab einen Beitrag von sonem britischen Security Institut, die tatsächlich Metaphs und GPT 5 5 gegeneinander benchmark haben und da quasi zu 'nem, ja, ich sag mal, zu 'nem Unentschieden gekommen sind.",{"text":20752,"start":3874,"end":3928},"Das eine war manchen Sachen besser als andere in anderen, aber es war jetzt keiner irgendwie bahnbrechend weiter als der andere.",{"text":20754,"start":3931,"end":3964},"Das verlinken wir auch mal hier in den Shownotes, kann man sich mal anschauen.",{"text":20756,"start":3964,"end":4023},"Und es gab einen sehr interessanten Artikel von Firefox Engineer, der son bisschen beschrieben hat, wie sie das denn genutzt haben.",94,{"sentences":20759,"speaker":109,"num_words":20770,"start":4025,"end":4476},[20760,20762,20764,20766,20768],{"text":20761,"start":4025,"end":4242},"Und zum einen war gesagt, na gut, das hat uns geholfen, megaviele irgendwie Security Lücken zu schließen und auch gar nicht so dieses Problem gehabt von, ja, wir hatten da, glaub ich, vor 'nem Jahr oder so mal drüber gesprochen, diese ganze AI SLOP Pull Request, die so über Open Source Projekte irgendwie herfallen, weil Leute halt glauben, irgendwie 'n Pull Request aufmachen zu müssen für irgendwas, was ihr Model ihnen gesagt hat, was da jetzt passieren muss.",{"text":20763,"start":4246,"end":4312},"Sondern auch da die falsch positiven Treffer halt deutlich, deutlich reduzitter waren, sodass insgesamt die Nutzung von dem Model halt skalierbarer war, ja.",{"text":20765,"start":4312,"end":4390},"Also es hilft Ihnen ja nichts, wenn Sie jetzt mit Mytheus irgendwie 500 bekommen, die Hälfte davon wegschmeißen müssen, weil sie nicht taugen und so weiter.",{"text":20767,"start":4390,"end":4407},"Also das war schon ganz cool.",{"text":20769,"start":4409,"end":4476},"Und was er aber auch beschrieben hat, war so, dass das Harness, was sie halt drumherum aufgesetzt haben und ehrlicherweise auch schon vorher aufgesetzt hatten.",158,{"sentences":20772,"speaker":109,"num_words":20783,"start":4480,"end":4798},[20773,20775,20777,20779,20781],{"text":20774,"start":4480,"end":4619},"Und das ist, glaub ich, das Entscheidende, ja, weil die Leute irgendwie da draußen immer nur denken, aha, mythhers irgendwie als Modell und ich setz das irgendwie auf mein Projekt an und auf einmal find ich da superviele Schwachstellen oder kann superviele Schwachstellen gleich schließen, weil sie die Patches mitliefern.",{"text":20776,"start":4623,"end":4688},"Und er beschreibt im Prinzip in dem Blogpost, den wir auch noch mal verlinken, so wie sieht dieser CICD Prozess bei denen eigentlich aus?",{"text":20778,"start":4692,"end":4733},"Wie nutzen Sie tatsächlich mehrere unterschiedliche Modelle, das eine zu nutzen, die Schwachstellen zu finden?",{"text":20780,"start":4733,"end":4768},"Das andere, die Schwachstelle und den Fix eben validieren zu lassen dafür?",{"text":20782,"start":4768,"end":4798},"Und wenn die Validierung fehlschlägt, dann verwerfen Sie das wieder.",111,{"sentences":20785,"speaker":109,"num_words":20796,"start":4798,"end":5054},[20786,20788,20790,20792,20794],{"text":20787,"start":4798,"end":4847},"Wie machen Sie die Einschätzung und die Priorisierung, die Triage von diesen ganzen Pullrequests, die da rausfallen?",{"text":20789,"start":4851,"end":4928},"Und wie haben Sie dieses neue Requirement eben umgesetzt, dass Mithhouse nicht nur eine Schwachstelle liefern muss, sondern auch gleichzeitig den Proof of Concept dafür mitliefern muss.",{"text":20791,"start":4928,"end":4969},"Also zu jeder Schwachstelle, die das findet, muss es quasi einen funktionierenden Exploit mitliefern.",{"text":20793,"start":4973,"end":5037},"Ansonsten sagen sie halt, ist das halt son theoretischer Fix, der bestimmt irgendwie 'n Wert hat, aber für sie halt nicht Priorität hat so, ja?",{"text":20795,"start":5037,"end":5054},"Und das fand ich eigentlich ganz cool.",90,{"sentences":20798,"speaker":109,"num_words":20809,"start":5054,"end":5343},[20799,20801,20803,20805,20807],{"text":20800,"start":5054,"end":5130},"Sie haben son bisschen beschrieben, wie sie dieses Harnes drumherum halt eigentlich schon aufgesetzt hatten, weil sie das genommen haben, auch mit GPT 4 schon zu experimentieren und so was.",{"text":20802,"start":5133,"end":5209},"Und dass jetzt eben der Teil in die das Zahnrad in dieser ganzen Maschine war, was ihn erlaubt hat, misst das halt wirklich effizient einzusetzen, ja.",{"text":20804,"start":5209,"end":5312},"Und das fand ich 'n cooles Beispiel, zu sagen, so das das Model ist wichtig und das liefert eine wichtige, aber Du musst dir halt für dein Projekt schon so sehr gezielt Gedanken darum machen, ne, was ist halt dein Harness?",{"text":20806,"start":5312,"end":5323},"Was verlangst Du davon?",{"text":20808,"start":5326,"end":5343},"Wo legst Du so das Benchmark an?",108,{"sentences":20811,"speaker":109,"num_words":20822,"start":5343,"end":5564},[20812,20814,20816,20818,20820],{"text":20813,"start":5343,"end":5354},"Wie funktionieren deine Guardrails?",{"text":20815,"start":5358,"end":5379},"Weil nur dann kannst Du halt wirklich viel damit machen.",{"text":20817,"start":5379,"end":5461},"Und er meinte halt auch, jetzt haben sie halt 'n Set-up, was so gut funktioniert, dass sie halt im Prinzip in der Lage sind, jedes andere Modell da drauf zu werfen.",{"text":20819,"start":5461,"end":5541},"Und Sie machen das auch regelmäßig und dann halt eben zu verstehen, okay, liefert jetzt, weiß nicht, ne, in Zukunft ein GPT 5 6 bessere Ergebnisse als ein Mythos.",{"text":20821,"start":5541,"end":5564},"Und dann können Sie's halt relativ einfach austauschen.",82,{"sentences":20824,"speaker":109,"num_words":20831,"start":5567,"end":5625},[20825,20827,20829],{"text":20826,"start":5567,"end":5607},"Aber am Ende ist für sie halt das mit das Entscheidende, damit die ganze Sache funktionieren kann.",{"text":20828,"start":5607,"end":5616},"Das fand ich irgendwie.",{"text":20830,"start":5620,"end":5625},"Ganz cool.",23,{"sentences":20833,"speaker":88,"num_words":20841,"start":5627,"end":5703},[20834,20835,20837,20839],{"text":1503,"start":5627,"end":5628},{"text":20836,"start":5632,"end":5652},"Aber ich mein, am Ende ja trotzdem beeindruckend.",{"text":20838,"start":5655,"end":5689},"Ich glaub, das hast Du, diesen Grafen hast Du eben nicht erwähnt, oder?",{"text":20840,"start":5689,"end":5703},"In dieser Anzahl von",26,{"sentences":20843,"speaker":109,"num_words":20586,"start":5706,"end":5712},[20844],{"text":20845,"start":5706,"end":5712},"Dingen, die",{"sentences":20847,"speaker":88,"num_words":20599,"start":5712,"end":5727},[20848,20850],{"text":20849,"start":5712,"end":5722},"ich fix habe.",{"text":5729,"start":5722,"end":5727},{"sentences":20852,"speaker":109,"num_words":20861,"start":5731,"end":5938},[20853,20855,20857,20859],{"text":20854,"start":5731,"end":5775},"also, sie haben son bisschen aufgezeigt, wie viel Fixes und Lücken finden sie so damit.",{"text":20856,"start":5779,"end":5826},"Und das waren so in den vergangenen Monaten vorher, weiß nicht so, 20, 30 pro Monat irgendwie.",{"text":20858,"start":5829,"end":5912},"Und jetzt ist es halt damit irgendwie auf über 400 explodiert, von denen Sie ungefähr 300, glaub ich, diesen diesem Set-up irgendwie zuschreiben, was Sie wohl gefunden haben.",{"text":20860,"start":5914,"end":5938},"Ja, also wie gesagt, es scheint scheint ja zu funktionieren.",70,{"sentences":20863,"speaker":88,"num_words":20870,"start":5941,"end":6163},[20864,20866,20868],{"text":20865,"start":5941,"end":5988},"Ja, aber da da wunder mich, also son bisschen passt das halt nicht so hundertprozentig für mich zusammen.",{"text":20867,"start":5988,"end":6072},"Also diese kritischen oder was kritischen Stimmen, aber die die sagen, ja, ist vielleicht gar nicht so doll oder keine Ahnung was und ist ist Kodex 5 5 nicht irgendwie ähnlich.",{"text":20869,"start":6075,"end":6163},"Und dann hast Du aber dann einfach im Ergebnis 'n sehr populäres Produkt, was dann Methhers Zugriff hat und halt einfach ein x-Faches an Security und Bugs irgendwie löst und schließt.",80,{"sentences":20872,"speaker":109,"num_words":20883,"start":6167,"end":6429},[20873,20875,20877,20879,20881],{"text":20874,"start":6167,"end":6190},"Also ich weiß nicht, ob sich das gegenseitig ausschließen muss.",{"text":20876,"start":6190,"end":6226},"Vielleicht könnten könnten Sie dasselbe Ergebnis auch mit GPT 5 5 irgendwie liefern.",{"text":20878,"start":6226,"end":6271},"Ich glaub, für Sie entscheidend tatsächlich, dass sie 'n Geheimnis haben und 'n skalierbaren Prozess, so.",{"text":20880,"start":6273,"end":6320},"Und vielleicht haben sie Methhos zum Anstoß genommen, das halt mal alles so aufzusetzen und ordentlicher zu machen, ja.",{"text":20882,"start":6323,"end":6429},"Ich glaube nicht, dass Du, wenn Du dir diesen Chart anguckst von 20 auf 400 hochgehen, weiß ich nicht, wenn wir jetzt einfach nur Metaphs an unsere Spiele dran lassen würden, ja, per se würde das nicht so viel finden.",98,{"sentences":20885,"speaker":109,"num_words":20703,"start":6429,"end":6495},[20886],{"text":20887,"start":6429,"end":6495},"Du brauchst schon das Set-up so drumherum, was dir hilft, so das zu finden, das zu validieren, das zu kategorisieren, das schon auch wichtig.",{"sentences":20889,"speaker":88,"num_words":20896,"start":6499,"end":6622},[20890,20892,20894],{"text":20891,"start":6499,"end":6533},"In der Menge und in der Effizienz dann auf jeden Fall, ja.",{"text":20893,"start":6533,"end":6540},"Aber hm.",{"text":20895,"start":6544,"end":6622},"Ich glaube schon, dass da noch gewisse, dass da 'n bisschen mehr Power drin ist als in den anderen Modellen, die wir bis jetzt auf den Markt frei verfügbar haben.",44,{"sentences":20898,"speaker":109,"num_words":20908,"start":6624,"end":6888},[20899,20901,20902,20904,20906],{"text":20900,"start":6624,"end":6691},"Ja, und also an der Stelle, ohne da jetzt wieder ganz tief reinzugehen, sei auch noch mal an diesen Vergleich von diesem britischen Security Institut verwiesen.",{"text":933,"start":6694,"end":6695},{"text":20903,"start":6695,"end":6767},"Der halt auch son bisschen beschrieben haben, was mussten sie halt mit und was mussten sie mit GPT 5 5 machen, sie halt so dahin zu kriegen, ja?",{"text":20905,"start":6769,"end":6826},"Und da ist schon, mit 5 5 musst Du 'n bisschen mehr noch noch tun, weil das halt nicht so fine tuned ist.",{"text":20907,"start":6826,"end":6888},"Aber es gab ja auch, oh, das weiß wahrscheinlich besser als ich, es gab zumindest von GPT 5 4 ja auch mal son Security Variante.",103,{"sentences":20910,"speaker":109,"num_words":20913,"start":6888,"end":6978},[20911],{"text":20912,"start":6888,"end":6978},"Ich weiß gar nicht, ob's die von 5 5 auch gibt, aber vielleicht wär das dann der passendere Vergleich am Ende des Tages, zu sagen, son Aber ähnlich Security fein geht also das Modell.",34,{"sentences":20915,"speaker":88,"num_words":20924,"start":6983,"end":7176},[20916,20918,20920,20922],{"text":20917,"start":6983,"end":7027},"Soweit ich weiß, ist Methis ja gar nicht auf den Security Bereich gefeintuned oder irgendwie darauf gemacht.",{"text":20919,"start":7027,"end":7067},"Es ist eher, es ist allgemein und dadurch kann es auch die Security Lücken lösen.",{"text":20921,"start":7070,"end":7099},"Also ich glaube gar nicht, dass es so die diesen Fokus hat.",{"text":20923,"start":7102,"end":7176},"Ist eher so, es ist sehr und das ist das, wo wir das Problem sehen, dass es so ist, ist der Bereich Security und deswegen machen wir Marketing drum rum.",74,{"sentences":20926,"speaker":109,"num_words":20937,"start":7179,"end":7409},[20927,20929,20931,20933,20935],{"text":20928,"start":7179,"end":7185},"Ja, ja.",{"text":20930,"start":7187,"end":7295},"Was natürlich auch nirgendswo erwähnt wird, weil das wahrscheinlich auch einfach nicht Teil der Diskussion ist, die was diese ganzen Firmen mit den Tropic irgendwie haben oder zumindest nicht Teil der öffentlichen Diskussion ist, was kostet das halt am Ende des Tages, ne?",{"text":20932,"start":7295,"end":7350},"Also das so in Relation zu setzen, wie viel mehr musst Du ausgeben, dieses Mehr an Leistung zu bekommen?",{"text":20934,"start":7350,"end":7370},"Und ist das wirklich eine lineare Skalierung?",{"text":20936,"start":7374,"end":7409},"Oder ist das halt exponentiell und deshalb vielleicht auch gar nicht rentabel im Einsatz?",85,{"sentences":20939,"speaker":109,"num_words":20942,"start":7409,"end":7451},[20940],{"text":20941,"start":7409,"end":7451},"Außer halt Security, wo Du im Prinzip keinen keinen Preis dran machen kannst, so, ja.",15,{"sentences":20944,"speaker":88,"num_words":20948,"start":7453,"end":7502},[20945,20946],{"text":1503,"start":7453,"end":7454},{"text":20947,"start":7454,"end":7502},"Und andererseits kannst Du sagen, ist das irgendwie alternativlos für die großen Anbieter, sich da zu wappnen und",19,{"sentences":20950,"speaker":109,"num_words":20641,"start":7505,"end":7681},[20951,20953,20955,20957,20959],{"text":20952,"start":7505,"end":7514},"Weiß ich ja, genau.",{"text":20954,"start":7514,"end":7535},"Weil Security halt keinen Preis hat, so.",{"text":20956,"start":7535,"end":7585},"Du musst halt jeden Preis in Anführungszeichen verhindern, dass Du dass Du quasi Opfer von sonem Exploit wirst.",{"text":20958,"start":7585,"end":7677},"Und dann ist es in Anführungszeichen egal, dass Mitheus in der Anwendung irgendwie zehnmal so viel kostet als vielleicht jetzt Cloud oder so was, weil Du halt nur dann diese Ergebnisse irgendwie bekommen kannst.",{"text":1503,"start":7680,"end":7681},{"sentences":20961,"speaker":109,"num_words":20841,"start":7681,"end":7744},[20962,20964],{"text":20963,"start":7681,"end":7718},"In Anführungszeichen, weil man vielleicht noch schauen muss, wie das sich mit GPT verhält oder so.",{"text":20965,"start":7718,"end":7744},"Aber ja, das ist vielleicht einfach Teil des Modells da.",{"sentences":20967,"speaker":88,"num_words":20970,"start":7748,"end":7904},[20968],{"text":20969,"start":7748,"end":7904},"Ja, und ich kenn jetzt tatsächlich überhaupt gar nicht so die Finanzierung hinter Projekten wie Firefox oder anderen Browsern, aber irgendwie kann ich mir nicht vorstellen, dass so ein Kostenfaktor, selbst wenn's ein x-Faches wäre und wenn das 100000 kostet oder von mir aus auf 500000, dass das irgendwie 'n relevanter 'n relevanter Faktor ist am Ende.",57,{"sentences":20972,"speaker":109,"num_words":20981,"start":7907,"end":8027},[20973,20974,20976,20977,20979],{"text":1503,"start":7907,"end":7908},{"text":20975,"start":7911,"end":7950},"Oder vielleicht geben sie sogar das für Open Source Projekte günstiger umsonst, wie auch immer raus.",{"text":1503,"start":7950,"end":7954},{"text":20978,"start":7957,"end":8018},"Wenn wenn ihr wisst, wie ein Traffic Geld mit Mythos verdient oder ob sie damit Geld verdienen, lasst es uns gerne wissen.",{"text":20980,"start":8022,"end":8027},"Ich glaube nicht.",43,{"sentences":20983,"speaker":109,"num_words":20993,"start":8029,"end":8305},[20984,20985,20987,20989,20991],{"text":8033,"start":8029,"end":8030},{"text":20986,"start":8035,"end":8068},"Ich hab ja schon am Anfang gesagt, das ist eine sehr AI lastige Folge.",{"text":20988,"start":8072,"end":8133},"Und bevor ich den Dennis erzählen lasse, was wir grade so mit AI machen, hab ich noch ein anderes kleines Thema, was da vielleicht reinpasst.",{"text":20990,"start":8136,"end":8218},"Wir haben ja vor Kurzem auch zumindest die Folge darüber aufgenommen, wie ich auf der Google Cloud Next war und haben da son bisschen drüber gesprochen, die kommt ja auch bald raus.",{"text":20992,"start":8220,"end":8305},"Ein kleines Tipp mit, was wir in der Folge nicht so erwähnt haben, aber was ich trotzdem interessant fand, war, ich hab länger mit den Jetbrains Jungs und Mädels gequatscht.",102,{"sentences":20995,"speaker":109,"num_words":21006,"start":8305,"end":8687},[20996,20998,21000,21002,21004],{"text":20997,"start":8305,"end":8336},"Ich glaub, es waren nur Jungs und haben über Juniy gesprochen.",{"text":20999,"start":8336,"end":8429},"Juniy ist also deren Coding Agent und hat halt auch son son CLI TUI bekommen wie Cloud Code und Codex und Jamlike CLI und hast Du alles nicht gesehen.",{"text":21001,"start":8432,"end":8591},"Und was sich da ganz interessant hat, was mir nicht so bewusst war, ist, dass alles, was Jetbrains aktuell grade so an AI Agent Capabilities baut, findet sich ja in vielen von ihren Produkten, also egal, was jetzt in der in der IDE ist, in diesen Webservices, die sie grade aufbauen, da ist ja viel recyceltes Zeug drin quasi.",{"text":21003,"start":8591,"end":8651},"Deswegen macht's ja auch Sinn für sie, dass sie das so bauen, weil sie es an so vielen Stellen verwenden können.",{"text":21005,"start":8655,"end":8687},"Aber sie entwickeln, testen und evaluieren das alles in dem Tool.",131,{"sentences":21008,"speaker":109,"num_words":21019,"start":8691,"end":9023},[21009,21011,21013,21015,21017],{"text":21010,"start":8691,"end":8772},"So, das heißt, wenn ihr wirklich mal so Edge AI Agents quasi von Jetbrains testen wollt, macht das am allermeisten Sinn, Junis Sale Eye zu benutzen.",{"text":21012,"start":8772,"end":8888},"Ich will gar nicht sagen, dass Junis Sale besser ist als die anderen, aber jetzt nur im Jet Brain Space gesprochen, ist man quasi an der Stelle noch am weitesten vorne mit dabei, weil sie sagen, na ja, das ist halt am einfachsten, da reinzukriegen, ne.",{"text":21014,"start":8888,"end":8946},"Du brauchst nicht viel UI drumherum, Du brauchst nicht viel Server Kleinkommunikation und deshalb testen sie das im Prinzip alles da.",{"text":21016,"start":8948,"end":8981},"Und am meisten davon natürlich da in dem Juni Early Access Preview.",{"text":21018,"start":8981,"end":9023},"Also wenn ihr euch das noch mal anschauen wollt, ich hab das bei mir jetzt auch noch mal installiert.",124,{"sentences":21021,"speaker":109,"num_words":20870,"start":9026,"end":9222},[21022,21024,21026],{"text":21023,"start":9026,"end":9084},"Und das macht schon 'n Unterschied noch mal zu dem AI Agent, den man jetzt so in den anderen Jetbrains IDs vielleicht auch findet.",{"text":21025,"start":9087,"end":9171},"War mir nicht so bewusst, fand ich superinteressant, fand ich auch superinteressant, wie wir son bisschen über die Entwicklungsarbeit da gesprochen haben, vielleicht an der, an der anderen Stelle da noch mal mehr zu.",{"text":21027,"start":9171,"end":9222},"Aber wenn ihr euch auch grade wieder 'n bisschen mehr mit Coding Agents beschäftigt und vielleicht da grade rum evaluiert und probiert,",{"sentences":21029,"speaker":88,"num_words":21032,"start":9225,"end":9260},[21030],{"text":21031,"start":9225,"end":9260},"nicht ablassen wollt von dem den euren Altlasten rund Jet Brains.",11,{"sentences":21034,"speaker":109,"num_words":21042,"start":9264,"end":9386},[21035,21037,21039,21040],{"text":21036,"start":9264,"end":9302},"Aber Moment, bist doch, Du bist doch son Kontaktor Mensch, oder?",{"text":21038,"start":9302,"end":9320},"Du machst das doch alles mittlerweile da drin.",{"text":933,"start":9324,"end":9325},{"text":21041,"start":9327,"end":9386},"Und ist das ist das hart, hängt das hart an Cloud Code oder kannst Du da jedes CLI Dingsbums mitbenutzen?",40,{"sentences":21044,"speaker":88,"num_words":21049,"start":9390,"end":9428},[21045,21047],{"text":21046,"start":9390,"end":9407},"Du kannst nicht jede CLI Dingsbums mitbenutzen.",{"text":21048,"start":9411,"end":9428},"Du kannst aktuell Codex und Cloud nutzen.",14,{"sentences":21051,"speaker":109,"num_words":20703,"start":9432,"end":9492},[21052],{"text":21053,"start":9432,"end":9492},"Weil er, also weil er die APIs von denen direkt benutzt oder benutzt er schon das CLI Tool im Hintergrund irgendwie, das alles auszuführen?",{"sentences":21055,"speaker":88,"num_words":21058,"start":9495,"end":9524},[21056],{"text":21057,"start":9495,"end":9524},"Nee, ich glaub eher, weil er die, ja, subscription nutzt.",10,{"sentences":21060,"speaker":109,"num_words":21070,"start":9528,"end":9721},[21061,21063,21065,21066,21068],{"text":21062,"start":9528,"end":9533},"Ah, okay.",{"text":21064,"start":9536,"end":9629},"Weil sonst hätt ich gedacht, also wär ja so dieses ganze Multitasking, was Du mit Colleductor irgendwie machst, wär ja auch irgendwie cool, das mit mehreren unterschiedlichen Agents vielleicht mal so zu versuchen, weißt Du?",{"text":1503,"start":9629,"end":9633},{"text":21067,"start":9633,"end":9657},"Und dann son bisschen 'n Vergleichsgefühl dafür zu bekommen.",{"text":21069,"start":9657,"end":9721},"Das ist ja das, wo ich ehrlicherweise immer son bisschen drüberstolper, egal ob ich jetzt mal Juni oder Germany oder was anderes halt wieder benutze.",72,{"sentences":21072,"speaker":109,"num_words":20981,"start":9725,"end":9831},[21073,21075],{"text":21074,"start":9725,"end":9760},"Man hat ja nicht so den 1 zu 1 Parallelenvergleich zwischen diesen 2 Tools.",{"text":21076,"start":9760,"end":9831},"Man benutzt für die eine Aufgabe das und für die andere Aufgabe das und dann weiß man aber nie, lag's an der Aufgabe oder lag's an dem Agent oder",{"sentences":21078,"speaker":88,"num_words":21087,"start":9833,"end":10045},[21079,21080,21081,21083,21085],{"text":1503,"start":9833,"end":9834},{"text":1503,"start":9834,"end":9838},{"text":21082,"start":9840,"end":9920},"Also ich mein, ich hab schon häufiger mal den gleichen Prompt und das gleiche Ding an das an unterschiedliche oder was auch immer geschmissen und geguckt, was mir da besser gefällt.",{"text":21084,"start":9920,"end":9991},"Aber ist natürlich auch trotzdem nicht so richtig vergleichbar, weil Du dann wieder sagen kannst, ja, Modell x y braucht 'n bisschen andere und detailliert und weniger detailliert.",{"text":21086,"start":9994,"end":10045},"Und trotzdem entspricht dir dann vielleicht mehr deiner Arbeitsweise oder deinem deiner Art, wie Du redest, kommunizierst, was auch immer.",81,{"sentences":21089,"speaker":88,"num_words":21049,"start":10045,"end":10078},[21090],{"text":21091,"start":10045,"end":10078},"Kann ja auch einfach dann sein, dass das 'n Match ist, der besser passt.",{"sentences":21093,"speaker":109,"num_words":20993,"start":10081,"end":10361},[21094,21096,21098,21100,21102],{"text":21095,"start":10081,"end":10128},"Ja, da haben wir auch drüber gesprochen, als wir mir son bisschen Julie noch mal schmackhaft machen wollten.",{"text":21097,"start":10128,"end":10221},"Manchmal auch, es entsteht son gewisser, also ja eigentlich kein Wenderlog in, ne, weil Du bist ja keinster Weise da dran gezwungen, aber man lernt ja son bisschen auch schon dieses Prompton.",{"text":21099,"start":10221,"end":10276},"Und ich hab jetzt auch so das Gefühl, wenn ich mit Cloud rede, fühlt es sich am, in Anführungszeichen, natürlichsten an.",{"text":21101,"start":10276,"end":10351},"Aber ich hab keine Ahnung, ob es daran liegt, weil Cloud mich so gut versteht oder weil ich's so gut gelernt habe, quasi mit Cloud zu reden, so, ne.",{"text":21103,"start":10354,"end":10361},"Schwräger Punkt.",{"sentences":21105,"speaker":109,"num_words":21110,"start":10364,"end":10442},[21106,21108],{"text":21107,"start":10364,"end":10416},"Aber speaking of reden, Du hast ganz viel mit deinem Agent geredet und zwar im wahrsten Sinne des Wortes geredet.",{"text":21109,"start":10419,"end":10442},"Wie kam es dazu und worüber hast Du mit ihm geredet?",31,{"sentences":21112,"speaker":88,"num_words":20896,"start":10445,"end":10564},[21113,21115,21117,21119],{"text":21114,"start":10445,"end":10464},"Ich rede die ganze Zeit mit meinen meinen.",{"text":21116,"start":10468,"end":10490},"Ich bin mir grade unsicher, auf was Du hinauswillst.",{"text":21118,"start":10490,"end":10558},"Willst Du darüber hinaus, dass wir reden jetzt mittlerweile und wirst bei Flow nutzen oder möchtest Du darüber hinaus, was wir grade bei Lotum machen?",{"text":21120,"start":10558,"end":10564},"Oder beides.",{"sentences":21122,"speaker":109,"num_words":21126,"start":10567,"end":10603},[21123,21124],{"text":10571,"start":10567,"end":10568},{"text":21125,"start":10573,"end":10603},"Ich dachte, das wär 'n guter guter Opener für beides, so.",12,{"sentences":21128,"speaker":88,"num_words":21139,"start":10605,"end":11121},[21129,21131,21133,21135,21137],{"text":21130,"start":10605,"end":10777},"Ja, wir haben uns heute überlegt, weil wir grade mittendrinstecken bei Lotum, nämlich in unserer vierten AI Week, dass wir einfach mal kurz darüber 'n bisschen plaudern, euch abzuholen oder mitzunehmen, wie das bei uns, wie wir das bei uns handeln, wie wir versuchen, AI weiter in unseren Alltag zu integrieren und da möglichst, ja, mit den neuesten neuesten Trends mithalten zu können.",{"text":21132,"start":10779,"end":10939},"Und 1 dieser Trends, die uns im Moment ein bisschen einholt und auch natürlich ein bisschen Gewöhnung und irgendwie Umgang braucht, wie das mit vielen der neuen Arbeitsweisen so ist, ist Whisper Flow als Tool, haben wir's einfach eine, simpel ausgedrückt, eine Diktier App ist, die aber halt einfach in der Qualität so ist, dass sie dich versteht und Punkt.",{"text":21134,"start":10939,"end":10970},"Also es gibt eigentlich nicht viel, was was man darüber noch sagen muss.",{"text":21136,"start":10970,"end":10995},"So einfach alles, was Du reinsprichst, kommt so da raus.",{"text":21138,"start":10997,"end":11121},"Es gibt noch zusätzlich dann, dass es automatisch verfeinert werden kann, dass es automatisch sich merkt, in welchem Programm Du welche Art von Sprech hast und dann entsprechend noch das son bisschen, was Du dann da reingesprochen hast, dass das eigentlich ja auch noch zusätzlich hübsch aussieht.",193,{"sentences":21141,"speaker":88,"num_words":20970,"start":11124,"end":11269},[21142,21144,21146,21148,21149],{"text":21143,"start":11124,"end":11149},"Der ist son bisschen, ne, Du kannst auch einfach deine Gedanken teilen.",{"text":21145,"start":11149,"end":11201},"Du kannst sagen, ach nee, das meinte ich grad nicht so und dann ersetzt er das son bisschen an der Stelle.",{"text":21147,"start":11201,"end":11226},"Er kann dann Listen formatieren und so Dinge.",{"text":11231,"start":11229,"end":11230},{"text":21150,"start":11230,"end":11269},"Also von daher das vielleicht erst mal als grundsätzliche Empfehlung, kann man wahrscheinlich schon sagen.",{"sentences":21152,"speaker":88,"num_words":20831,"start":11269,"end":11331},[21153],{"text":21154,"start":11269,"end":11331},"Es gibt einige hier im Unternehmen, die das sehr hart pushen und so sagen, hey, das ist 'n wahnsinniger Effizienzgewinn für Sie gewesen.",{"sentences":21156,"speaker":109,"num_words":21159,"start":11334,"end":11395},[21157],{"text":21158,"start":11334,"end":11395},"Ich glaub, Fabi hat das auch schon dreimal in unterschiedlichsten Konstellationen als Pick of the day in sone DeepPipe Folge hier reingeschwungert.",22,{"sentences":21161,"speaker":88,"num_words":20688,"start":11399,"end":11508},[21162,21163,21165,21167,21169],{"text":1503,"start":11399,"end":11400},{"text":21164,"start":11404,"end":11430},"Aber ja, also da sind's wirklich Leute, die da hart drauf schwirren.",{"text":21166,"start":11430,"end":11450},"Und es bringt natürlich die Challenge mit sich.",{"text":21168,"start":11450,"end":11484},"Also es ist halt bisschen weird, in sein Macbook reinzulabern so.",{"text":21170,"start":11487,"end":11508},"Es ist nicht gesund zu flüstern über lange Zeiträume.",{"sentences":21172,"speaker":88,"num_words":21032,"start":11511,"end":11540},[21173],{"text":21174,"start":11511,"end":11540},"Das heißt, es ist auch besser, seine normale Sprache zu nutzen.",{"sentences":21176,"speaker":109,"num_words":20586,"start":11542,"end":11546},[21177],{"text":21178,"start":11542,"end":11546},"Ist das",{"sentences":21180,"speaker":88,"num_words":21184,"start":11549,"end":11595},[21181,21182],{"text":1503,"start":11549,"end":11550},{"text":21183,"start":11554,"end":11595},"Das war hier auch irgend eine interne Diskussion mit 1 Logopädin, die die das gesagt hat.",17,{"sentences":21186,"speaker":109,"num_words":20655,"start":11597,"end":11612},[21187],{"text":21188,"start":11597,"end":11612},"Das wusste ich ja alles.",{"sentences":21190,"speaker":88,"num_words":21201,"start":11615,"end":11996},[21191,21193,21195,21197,21199],{"text":21192,"start":11615,"end":11704},"Und ja, von daher son bisschen die Frage, also man will sich dann ja irgendwie auch nicht immer in ein Einzelbüros setzen, dann ist das Konzept der Büro- und Zusammenkommenarbeit irgendwie wieder son bisschen.",{"text":21194,"start":11707,"end":11801},"Dahin, es fühlt sich erst mal halt weird an, wenn man auch, ne, seine Gedanken und sein vielleicht, ja, wie dumm prompt ich dieses Ding jetzt eigentlich grade und das kriegen ja jetzt Kolleginnen mit so, die das hören.",{"text":21196,"start":11805,"end":11830},"Das ist sone gewisse Hemmschwelle, die man vielleicht am Anfang hat.",{"text":21198,"start":11833,"end":11894},"Vielleicht, ich nutze es auch selbst noch nicht in in allen Situationen, aber auf jeden Fall ja, es kann schon es kann schon helfen.",{"text":21200,"start":11894,"end":11996},"Was 1 der, also neben der Geschwindigkeit der Texteingabe ist für viele das Große so, Du kannst halt einfach labern und dieser Mehrkontext ist halt der, den Du in deinem Kopf hast und der ist halt einfach da.",146,{"sentences":21203,"speaker":88,"num_words":21213,"start":11996,"end":12362},[21204,21206,21208,21209,21211],{"text":21205,"start":11996,"end":12071},"Und wenn Du's sonst in Text verfasst, dann reduzierst Du's auf jeden Fall schon und nimmst irgendwie Dinge raus, die Du eigentlich noch in deinem Kopf mit dazu hattest.",{"text":21207,"start":12071,"end":12114},"Und das führt einfach dazu, dass mehr Kontext und mehr deine Gedanken bei den Agents landen.",{"text":11231,"start":12118,"end":12119},{"text":21210,"start":12122,"end":12244},"Das als kurzen Ausflug zu zu Whisperflow, was jetzt durch eine, also ich glaub, wir haben jetzt in dem Team irgendwie 20, 25 Leute, also es sind wahrscheinlich schon so die Hälfte der Hälfte der Firma innerhalb weniger Wochen da aufgesprungen auf diesen auf diesen Zug.",{"text":21212,"start":12247,"end":12362},"Ja, und apropos Aufspringen, wir haben jetzt schon das vierte Mal eine sogenannte AI Week bei Lotum, wo wir uns einfach komplett das Projekt- und Tagesgeschäft pausieren und jeder die Freiheit hat, die ganze Woche lang an AI Themen zu arbeiten.",133,{"sentences":21215,"speaker":88,"num_words":21226,"start":12362,"end":12525},[21216,21218,21220,21222,21224],{"text":21217,"start":12362,"end":12386},"Und jetzt ist natürlich die Frage, okay, was bedeutet das?",{"text":21219,"start":12386,"end":12399},"Was sind die AI Themen?",{"text":21221,"start":12399,"end":12457},"Und es gibt sehr wenige Vorgaben, die wir dort machen und wir hatten sehr, sehr unterschiedliche AI Weeks in der Vergangenheit.",{"text":21223,"start":12457,"end":12476},"Also die haben alle son bisschen den Fokus gehabt.",{"text":21225,"start":12476,"end":12525},"Ich glaub, die Erste war vor, ist ja nie wanni war, ob die vor 2 Jahren vielleicht so",63,{"sentences":21228,"speaker":109,"num_words":21233,"start":12525,"end":12555},[21229,21231],{"text":21230,"start":12525,"end":12542},"war oder was Die Erste?",{"text":21232,"start":12546,"end":12555},"Wissen nicht so",8,{"sentences":21235,"speaker":88,"num_words":20586,"start":12555,"end":12560},[21236],{"text":21237,"start":12555,"end":12560},"lang her.",{"sentences":21239,"speaker":109,"num_words":20623,"start":12560,"end":12602},[21240,21242,21244,21245],{"text":21241,"start":12560,"end":12571},"Bevor ich dabei war.",{"text":21243,"start":12571,"end":12594},"Also ich muss schon tatsächlich 3 Jahre her sein.",{"text":556,"start":12594,"end":12597},{"text":20928,"start":12597,"end":12602},{"sentences":21247,"speaker":88,"num_words":21258,"start":12604,"end":12980},[21248,21250,21252,21254,21256],{"text":21249,"start":12604,"end":12680},"Da war es halt so, okay, man hatte die ersten Ideen, das war alles ganz spannend, wenn man das irgendwie ausprobiert und ist an ganz vielen Dingen noch irgendwie gescheitert.",{"text":21251,"start":12683,"end":12718},"Die Dritte ist gar nicht so lange her, die ist 'n paar Monate her.",{"text":21253,"start":12721,"end":12767},"Da war dann so sehr beeindruckend, okay, es geht jetzt richtig viel und vor allen Dingen in allen möglichen Bereichen.",{"text":21255,"start":12767,"end":12867},"Das heißt, wir hatten vorher so der Dev Bereich hatte eine Cloud Lizenz und danach hatten wir irgendwie dann 100 Prozent, hatte hier irgendwie dann Claude am Start und hat sich eigene Tools und und Skripts geschrieben.",{"text":21257,"start":12871,"end":12980},"Und das hat halt einfach, also beeindruckend zu sehen für mich, wie viel das noch mal gepusht hat so einfach im ganzen Unternehmen, obwohl wir vorher schon das Gefühl hatten, wir sind jetzt nicht ganz weit hinten dran und wir sind schon einigermaßen up to date.",147,{"sentences":21260,"speaker":88,"num_words":21271,"start":12983,"end":13348},[21261,21263,21265,21267,21269],{"text":21262,"start":12983,"end":13065},"Aber diese Freiheime einfach noch mal zu haben, sich mit allen möglichen Leuten auszutauschen, zu wissen, die anderen haben grade auch nix anderes im im Sinn und Kopf, außer dieses Thema ist superhilfreich.",{"text":21264,"start":13068,"end":13140},"Und da sind viele, viele kleine Tools, viele Apps entstanden, teilweise natürlich irgendwie so als Mittel zum Zweck, ne, dass man irgendwie was hat, mal was auszuprobieren.",{"text":21266,"start":13143,"end":13170},"Und dadurch haben sich natürlich auch ganz neue ganz neue ja etabliert.",{"text":21268,"start":13174,"end":13261},"Ich glaub, haben wir hier im Podcast auch noch nie noch nicht so groß thematisiert, wir sind in einem Projekt, was wir gerade machen, ein Spiel, was wir neu entwickeln, also kein kein Bestandsgame.",{"text":21270,"start":13265,"end":13348},"Da sind wir jetzt einen sehr radikalen Weg gegangen vor 3 Monaten, denn in der letzten AI Week hat der Game Lead Lars dort einen Prototypen, wie nennt man das jetzt?",137,{"sentences":21273,"speaker":88,"num_words":20628,"start":13348,"end":13386},[21274,21276,21278],{"text":21275,"start":13348,"end":13361},"Bank, ist das noch?",{"text":21277,"start":13365,"end":13378},"Nee, das ist dann eher, ne.",{"text":21279,"start":13378,"end":13386},"Also Also für",{"sentences":21281,"speaker":109,"num_words":20628,"start":13386,"end":13421},[21282],{"text":21283,"start":13386,"end":13421},"ihn ist es ja, weil er hat's ja gar nicht damit beschäftigt, eigentlich.",{"sentences":21285,"speaker":88,"num_words":21110,"start":13421,"end":13505},[21286,21287],{"text":11231,"start":13421,"end":13424},{"text":21288,"start":13424,"end":13505},"Also Und da war son bisschen erschreckend, wie schnell das auf 1 Qualität war, die sehr ähnlich dem eigentlichen Projekt, was in entwickelt wurde, irgendwie ähnelte in in dann Webtechnik",{"sentences":21290,"speaker":109,"num_words":20655,"start":13509,"end":13525},[21291],{"text":21292,"start":13509,"end":13525},"Zumindest dann außen hin so",{"sentences":21294,"speaker":88,"num_words":20841,"start":13527,"end":13608},[21295,21297,21298,21300,21301],{"text":21296,"start":13527,"end":13534},"für den User.",{"text":1503,"start":13534,"end":13538},{"text":21299,"start":13538,"end":13549},"Ja, ja, ja, genau.",{"text":1503,"start":13549,"end":13551},{"text":21302,"start":13555,"end":13608},"Intern war's eine Riesen, also es war praktisch eine Datei irgendwie 3000 Codes, so ordentlich ordentlich kaputt.",{"sentences":21304,"speaker":88,"num_words":21315,"start":13611,"end":14098},[21305,21307,21309,21311,21313],{"text":21306,"start":13611,"end":13715},"Aber es hat natürlich trotz der Diskussionen irgendwie bei uns ausgelöst, okay, wenn das in dieser Zeit geht und wir wollen irgendwelche ersten Sachen testen und irgendwelche Features testen oder so was, ist das nicht eine Qualität, die ausreicht, das machen zu können?",{"text":21308,"start":13715,"end":13772},"Und dann gab's viele Gespräche darüber und Abwägung und am Ende haben wir gesagt, lass uns mal diesen sehr radikalen Weg gehen.",{"text":21310,"start":13775,"end":13892},"Er ist jetzt nicht ganz so radikal, dass wir sagen, okay, wir gucken gar nicht in den Code, aber man muss schon sagen, es ist so, dass uns die Codequalität in Anführungsstrichen egal ist und Anführungsstriche bedeutet halt, solange irgendwie das Ding noch mit Agents bedienbar ist.",{"text":21312,"start":13894,"end":13997},"Das heißt, was schon passiert ist, dass dann die Devs, die hier ran, in dem Projekt dran sind, versucht haben, diesen Prototyp 'n bisschen modularer zu machen und einfach son bisschen aufzuräumen, zu gucken, dass das dass eben nutzbar ist.",{"text":21314,"start":13997,"end":14098},"Und am Ende jetzt die Aufgabe haben, okay, wir sorgen dafür, dass durch Tests, durch durch Dinge, die einfach an dem Projekt gegeben sind, wir die Möglichkeit haben, dass jeder an den Dingen rumprompen kann, der in diesem Projektteam ist.",192,{"sentences":21317,"speaker":88,"num_words":21328,"start":14098,"end":14336},[21318,21320,21322,21324,21326],{"text":21319,"start":14098,"end":14167},"Und das ist dann nicht nur der Gamlead, das ist dann das sind die Designer*innen, das ist aber auch Content und Sound und natürlich die selbst.",{"text":21321,"start":14167,"end":14242},"Das heißt, alle Gewerke, die wir so vorher dann einzeln hatten, sind jetzt an der echten Code Base und prompt ja, Agents, die dort Änderungen machen.",{"text":21323,"start":14244,"end":14262},"Und bis jetzt fühlt sich das supergut an.",{"text":21325,"start":14262,"end":14281},"Natürlich ähnliche Herausforderungen wie alles in AI.",{"text":21327,"start":14281,"end":14336},"Also das heißt son bisschen Mental Overload und Gefahr, da ein bisschen zu viel zu machen, ist auf jeden Fall gegeben.",88,{"sentences":21330,"speaker":88,"num_words":20757,"start":14339,"end":14583},[21331,21333,21335,21337,21339],{"text":21332,"start":14339,"end":14409},"Ja, also das war jetzt noch mal 'n Exkurs sozusagen, 1 der Projekte, ein konkretes Beispiel sozusagen, okay, das ist entsprungen aus der der letzten AI Week.",{"text":21334,"start":14412,"end":14433},"Und ja, da stecken wir grade wieder mittendrin.",{"text":21336,"start":14436,"end":14520},"Jan und ich, wir sind beide an einem an einem Prototypen meines Spiels tatsächlich auch so zu gucken, okay, das ist AI First gedacht, also was was ginge vorher oder was geht vorher nicht?",{"text":21338,"start":14520,"end":14562},"Was ist jetzt nur möglich dadurch, dass wir so was wie haben, mit denen man interagieren kann.",{"text":21340,"start":14564,"end":14583},"Und nächste Woche haben wir dann das dazu.",{"sentences":21342,"speaker":88,"num_words":21353,"start":14585,"end":14786},[21343,21345,21347,21349,21351],{"text":21344,"start":14585,"end":14651},"Das heißt, da wird man 'n bisschen sehen, was überall passiert ist und mit Sicherheit auch spüren, ja, was das so für 'n nächster Schub war.",{"text":21346,"start":14651,"end":14679},"Was diesmal weniger war in der letzten fand ich auch sehr spannend.",{"text":21348,"start":14679,"end":14759},"In der letzten waren viele so Diskussion, Diskussionsthemen, die auch angebracht wurden, wo wir über son bisschen ethische Seiten von a I, wie wollen wir das irgendwie als Unternehmen?",{"text":21350,"start":14763,"end":14775},"Wie wohl fühlen wir uns damit?",{"text":21352,"start":14775,"end":14786},"Mit welchen Anbietern?",76,{"sentences":21355,"speaker":88,"num_words":21366,"start":14790,"end":14870},[21356,21358,21360,21362,21364],{"text":21357,"start":14790,"end":14799},"Was ist das son bisschen?",{"text":21359,"start":14799,"end":14819},"Natürlich auch Ängste, die mit verknüpft sind.",{"text":21361,"start":14819,"end":14832},"Was bedeutet das für unsere Rollen?",{"text":21363,"start":14832,"end":14846},"Auch über die Rollen gesprochen.",{"text":21365,"start":14846,"end":14870},"Was ist das, was bedeutet das für unsere Stellenausschreibungen?",32,{"sentences":21368,"speaker":88,"num_words":21110,"start":14874,"end":14946},[21369,21371],{"text":21370,"start":14874,"end":14894},"Was bedeutet das für die Profile, die wir haben?",{"text":21372,"start":14894,"end":14946},"Also all das, was sich im Moment halt so krass ändert, das irgendwie son bisschen zu zu bündeln und gemeinsam zu erforschen.",{"sentences":21374,"speaker":109,"num_words":20993,"start":14949,"end":15215},[21375,21377,21379,21381,21383],{"text":21376,"start":14949,"end":15013},"Ja, ich glaub, das spielt aber auch rein, dass, was ja selber gesagt, die letzte AI Week war vor 3 oder 4 Monaten oder so was, ne.",{"text":21378,"start":15015,"end":15071},"Und da hat sich ja prinzipiell an dem, was wir da in diesen ganzen Diskussionsrunden angesprochen haben, nicht so viel geändert, ne.",{"text":21380,"start":15071,"end":15126},"Also alles, was man damals an ethischen Bedenken oder Hoffnungen haben konnte, hat man heute, glaub ich, immer noch.",{"text":21382,"start":15126,"end":15173},"Alle Fragen, die sich in Bezug auf Recruitingstellen sind quasi noch dieselben in den letzten 3 Monaten, ne.",{"text":21384,"start":15173,"end":15215},"Nicht, dass viel passiert ist, aber ich glaube, es ist halt viel auf technischer Front passiert.",{"sentences":21386,"speaker":109,"num_words":20924,"start":15218,"end":15405},[21387,21389,21390,21392,21394],{"text":21388,"start":15218,"end":15266},"Und auf, ich sag mal, prinzipieller Front sozusagen hat sich ja jetzt nicht so viel getan so, ja.",{"text":1503,"start":15266,"end":15268},{"text":21391,"start":15268,"end":15344},"Und vielleicht ist es ja auch einfach 'n gutes Zeichen, dass wir viel von den Sachen adressiert haben und jetzt nicht so der da war, die direkt noch mal rauszuholen, ja.",{"text":21393,"start":15344,"end":15378},"Und und noch mal irgendwie über Hiring Impact oder so was zu sprechen.",{"text":21395,"start":15378,"end":15405},"Und es gab ja schon, also 'n paar kleinere Diskussionsrunden gab's.",{"sentences":21397,"speaker":109,"num_words":21406,"start":15405,"end":15581},[21398,21400,21402,21404],{"text":21399,"start":15405,"end":15476},"Ich war in der mit mit Benny und und Sven und Jens und so, wo wir son bisschen über, was sind denn eigentlich AI First Spieletitel?",{"text":21401,"start":15479,"end":15497},"Wie kann das aussehen und gibt's das überhaupt?",{"text":21403,"start":15497,"end":15534},"Und so, halt son bisschen mehr auf auf Produktebene vielleicht so darüber diskutiert haben, ja.",{"text":21405,"start":15537,"end":15581},"Aber ja, diese diese Grundsatzdiskussion hatten wir, glaub ich, dieses Mal weniger und ich find das auch okay so.",68,{"sentences":21408,"speaker":88,"num_words":21419,"start":15583,"end":15813},[21409,21411,21413,21415,21417],{"text":21410,"start":15583,"end":15595},"Okay, ja, nee, absolut.",{"text":21412,"start":15599,"end":15604},"Aber genau.",{"text":21414,"start":15604,"end":15681},"Und so hat halt jede, die wir bis jetzt hatten, irgendwie so ihren eigenen Touch, ging irgendwo in eine in eine bestimmte Richtung, hat an verschiedenen Stellen irgendwie Dinge bewirkt.",{"text":21416,"start":15685,"end":15793},"Aber bis jetzt war es immer sehr, sehr, sehr, also es hat der ganzen den ganzen Unternehmen 'n ordentlichen Schub noch mal verpasst, obwohl wir im Alltag uns schon sehr viel Zeit und Raum geben und nehmen für AI und die Weiterentwicklung, ja.",{"text":21418,"start":15793,"end":15813},"Und das ist halt irgendwo, ja, genau.",86,{"sentences":21421,"speaker":109,"num_words":21419,"start":15815,"end":16033},[21422,21424,21426],{"text":21423,"start":15815,"end":15886},"Wir haben ja vor einiger Zeit schon eine Folge gemacht zu Hackathons und Gamejams und so was wir ja schon viel früher vor der AI Week gemacht haben.",{"text":21425,"start":15886,"end":15906},"Also die berühmte Folge mit dem Hackfleisch Cover.",{"text":21427,"start":15909,"end":16033},"Was würdest Du denn sagen, ist denn jetzt der Unterschied für dich zu 'nem Game Jam vielleicht oder 'n Hackathon Woche, die wir ja schon x-gemacht haben vorher, zu der AI Week, weil jetzt so unseren Spieleprototyp zum Beispiel, den hätten wir ja auch in 'nem Game Jam bauen können.",{"sentences":21429,"speaker":88,"num_words":21419,"start":16035,"end":16257},[21430,21432,21434,21436,21438],{"text":21431,"start":16035,"end":16044},"Das ist richtig, ja.",{"text":21433,"start":16046,"end":16103},"Und das ist ja auch explizit, was wir so diesmal im Framing auch gesagt haben, dass das auch völlig in Ordnung ist, ne.",{"text":21435,"start":16103,"end":16164},"Also wenn jetzt Spielideen oder andere Dinge, die halt vorher in 'nem Gamebo stattgefunden haben, dass die jetzt auch in der AI Week stattfinden.",{"text":21437,"start":16167,"end":16209},"Und klar, da vielleicht noch mal mehr explorieren, was ist so an der Grenze des Machbaren?",{"text":21439,"start":16213,"end":16257},"Was ist der Unterschied, den AI dort auch macht, dass man da 'n bisschen mehr den Fokus drauf legt?",{"sentences":21441,"speaker":88,"num_words":21452,"start":16260,"end":16449},[21442,21444,21446,21448,21450],{"text":21443,"start":16260,"end":16301},"Aber ja, deswegen ist es ist es explizit halt so offen gestaltet, dass das grundsätzlich passieren kann.",{"text":21445,"start":16301,"end":16329},"Ich glaub, insgesamt ist es halt, und das wird sich auch ändern.",{"text":21447,"start":16329,"end":16400},"Also ich mein tendenziell, ich weiß es nicht, vielleicht ist der Gedanke ja, dass man halt, also ne, irgendwie eher so immer dann in dem Modus irgendwann ist.",{"text":21449,"start":16400,"end":16427},"Aktuell sind das alles noch Neuerungen und man muss abholen.",{"text":21451,"start":16427,"end":16449},"Es gibt, ne, immer was Neues zu entdecken.",75,{"sentences":21454,"speaker":88,"num_words":21465,"start":16453,"end":16914},[21455,21457,21459,21461,21463],{"text":21456,"start":16453,"end":16535},"Hoffentlich sind wir ja dann irgendwann so weit, dass das einfach auch der Alltag ist, in in dem wir uns irgendwie bewegen und man dann vielleicht wieder ein anderes ein anderes Format finden muss.",{"text":21458,"start":16535,"end":16570},"Aber so gesehen würd ich sagen, es hat 'n größeren Impact auf den Alltag aktuell.",{"text":21460,"start":16573,"end":16776},"Also während der Gamegam vielleicht 'n bisschen isolierter war und vielleicht auch mal ein Spiel draus gekommen ist, was wir dann weiterentwickelt haben, ne, und und irgendwie versucht haben, sonem Produkt zu machen, ist es bei der AI Week eher son bisschen, dass es tiefer in die Prozesse und in die Gedanken und die in die Zusammenarbeit so eingreift, die wir danach haben und ja, im besten Fall so den den Alltag von allen ein bisschen erleichtert, verbessert, wie auch immer.",{"text":21462,"start":16776,"end":16796},"Das seh ich so als als als Hauptunterschied.",{"text":21464,"start":16799,"end":16914},"Und vor allen Dingen aber auch gedanklich zeigt und das ist etwas, wenn man über den ganzen Transformationsprozess irgendwie nachdenkt, wie wie, also wie wie kann man sich da als Unternehmen irgendwie weiterentwickeln und das irgendwie attraktiv und spannend gestalten für die Mitarbeitenden.",181,{"sentences":21467,"speaker":88,"num_words":21478,"start":16918,"end":17317},[21468,21470,21472,21474,21476],{"text":21469,"start":16918,"end":17049},"Das, was wir immer wieder beobachtet haben, wenn Du ein konkretes Beispiel aus deiner Bubble hast, das Du zeigen kannst, wo ein Use Case ist, der funktioniert hat, der ist tausendmal mehr wert als irgendein Marketingvideo von von 'nem neuen AI Tool und das treibt so die Adoption am meisten.",{"text":21471,"start":17049,"end":17178},"Also einfach irgendwie Use Cases, reale Dinge, die hier passieren, die in unserem Kontext sind, die einen echten Impact haben so, Das ist das, was dann auf die anderen abfärbt und wo sie sagen, ach krass, wenn das funktioniert hat bei uns, na ja, gut sein, wird das und das auch funktionieren.",{"text":21473,"start":17180,"end":17289},"Ja, und das kommt natürlich stark dadurch, ne, dass jetzt jeder teilt, was er macht, was die Möglichkeiten waren, wo die Grenzen sind Und das sehr, dieses sehr Theoretische, was man halt in Blogbeiträgen und so weiter sich lesen kann, sehr in die Praxis holt.",{"text":21475,"start":17289,"end":17306},"Wie sieht es denn bei uns aus?",{"text":21477,"start":17306,"end":17317},"Was sind denn unsere Limitierungen?",159,{"sentences":21480,"speaker":88,"num_words":21032,"start":17317,"end":17342},[21481],{"text":21482,"start":17317,"end":17342},"Was sind denn unsere Grenzen von dem, was aktuell möglich ist?",{"sentences":21484,"speaker":109,"num_words":20822,"start":17345,"end":17566},[21485,21487,21489,21491,21493],{"text":21486,"start":17345,"end":17369},"Ich würd das unterschreiben und gleichzeitig noch son bisschen relativieren.",{"text":21488,"start":17373,"end":17397},"Weil ich glaub schon, das, was Du gesagt hast, ist richtig.",{"text":21490,"start":17401,"end":17421},"Aber ich glaube, man kann das auch kleiner machen.",{"text":21492,"start":17421,"end":17490},"Also wahrscheinlich, oder gibt bei uns auch genug Beispiele, wo derselbe Effekt auch eintritt, wenn jemand das einfach nur mit 'nem persönlichen Thema irgendwie hat, ne.",{"text":21494,"start":17490,"end":17566},"Also ein Beispiel wär jetzt unser unser Office Managementteam hat irgendwie eine App gebaut, die die Maintenance und Care für unsere Pflanzen zu automatisieren so, ja?",{"sentences":21496,"speaker":109,"num_words":21507,"start":17566,"end":17875},[21497,21499,21501,21503,21505],{"text":21498,"start":17566,"end":17605},"Das war son sehr kleiner, sehr isolierter Use Case, aber es hat halt für sie supergut funktioniert.",{"text":21500,"start":17609,"end":17654},"Und das war 'n Erfolgserlebnis und deswegen kümmern sie sich jetzt auch mithilfe von AI größere Probleme.",{"text":21502,"start":17654,"end":17712},"Wenn wir jetzt da unsere Buchungsplattform irgendwie grade da selber bauen so, ne, das ist ja schon 'n Step Change dann so.",{"text":21504,"start":17714,"end":17789},"Aber wir sehen auch bei manch anderen, die sich, weiß ich nicht, also zu Hause halt irgendwie mit 'nem Thema beschäftigen und da halt so was gelöst haben oder 'n Erfolgserlebnis hatten.",{"text":21506,"start":17789,"end":17875},"Und es hat auch schon reicht in Anführungszeichen, son Katalysator zu sein, dann halt das mitzubringen in die Firma, ins Team und dann zu sagen, guck mal, ich hab hier das gemacht und das auch.",123,{"sentences":21509,"speaker":109,"num_words":21520,"start":17875,"end":18139},[21510,21512,21514,21516,21518],{"text":21511,"start":17875,"end":17950},"Also man muss gar nicht, glaub ich, immer nur und ich glaub, den Anspruch haben wir auch zumindest in der AI Week nicht, nicht immer nur die großen Probleme von der Firma lösen.",{"text":21513,"start":17950,"end":17982},"Ich glaub, es reicht einfach, wenn Du irgendeine Art von Erfolgserlebnis so hast, ja.",{"text":21515,"start":17982,"end":18084},"Also ich weiß nicht, Du kannst gefühlt sich jede Woche mit Benny an den Tisch setzen bei uns beim Mittagessen und er erzählt dir, was er zu Hause grade wieder mit irgend 'nem AI Projekt gemacht hat oder mit Richard oder so, ja.",{"text":21517,"start":18084,"end":18104},"Und das ist, glaub ich, mindestens genauso wichtig.",{"text":21519,"start":18104,"end":18139},"Und deshalb find ich's auch immer gut, ne, wenn wir halt sagen, experimentiert halt damit.",113,{"sentences":21522,"speaker":109,"num_words":21532,"start":18142,"end":18300},[21523,21525,21527,21529,21531],{"text":21524,"start":18142,"end":18166},"Und das das muss jetzt nicht am aktuellen Produkt hängen.",{"text":21526,"start":18166,"end":18218},"Es muss auch nicht unbedingt das nächste Spiel irgendwie rauskommen, aber es muss halt für euch irgendwie was sein, was was funktioniert so.",{"text":21528,"start":18218,"end":18253},"Ja, und selbst, wenn's manchmal nicht funktioniert, kann man ja auch was draus lernen.",{"text":21530,"start":18253,"end":18298},"Aber am Ende ist, glaub ich, so das das Entscheidende, dass man son son Erlebnis irgendwie geschaffen hat.",{"text":1503,"start":18298,"end":18300},66,{"sentences":21534,"speaker":109,"num_words":20599,"start":18300,"end":18312},[21535,21536,21538],{"text":1503,"start":18300,"end":18303},{"text":21537,"start":18305,"end":18309},"Geschaffen hat.",{"text":1503,"start":18311,"end":18312},{"sentences":21540,"speaker":88,"num_words":20981,"start":18315,"end":18432},[21541,21543],{"text":21542,"start":18315,"end":18423},"Ja, also genau, wenn ihr irgendwie auch da noch mal spezifischere Fragen habt oder das bei euch machen wollt, aber irgendwelche Hürden habt oder so, könnt ihr euch hier gerne melden, wenn wir da irgendwo mit Erfahrungsberichten unterstützen können und erreichen.",{"text":21544,"start":18423,"end":18432},"Dann das",{"sentences":21546,"speaker":109,"num_words":21058,"start":18432,"end":18460},[21547,21549],{"text":21548,"start":18432,"end":18456},"kommt zu euch und veranstaltet AI Weeks on demand.",{"text":18462,"start":18459,"end":18460},{"sentences":21551,"speaker":88,"num_words":21233,"start":18464,"end":18483},[21552,21554],{"text":21553,"start":18464,"end":18471},"so für Einzelunternehmen.",{"text":21555,"start":18474,"end":18483},"Kann ich das mal machen?",{"sentences":21557,"speaker":109,"num_words":21058,"start":18485,"end":18510},[21558,21559],{"text":1503,"start":18485,"end":18486},{"text":21560,"start":18486,"end":18510},"Echt, das da schon, da kann man schon profitieren.",{"sentences":21562,"speaker":88,"num_words":21159,"start":18513,"end":18575},[21563,21565,21566,21568,21570],{"text":21564,"start":18513,"end":18522},"Ja, das stimmt.",{"text":18528,"start":18526,"end":18527},{"text":21567,"start":18531,"end":18538},"Zurück zum Projekt.",{"text":21569,"start":18538,"end":18556},"Eigentlich darf so was nämlich nicht passieren.",{"text":21571,"start":18556,"end":18575},"Das ist vielleicht auch noch an der Stelle.",{"sentences":21573,"speaker":88,"num_words":20536,"start":18575,"end":18709},[21574,21576,21578],{"text":21575,"start":18575,"end":18608},"Diese diese Podcastaufnahme hier ist eigentlich komplett gegen das Konzept, das wir haben.",{"text":21577,"start":18610,"end":18661},"Deswegen immerhin gut, dass wir heute viel über AI geredet haben, weil sonst soll man sich nämlich alles aus dem Kalender streichen.",{"text":21579,"start":18664,"end":18709},"Und dass wir hier grade sitzen und nicht in unserem AI We Projekt arbeiten, ist eigentlich schon fatal.",{"sentences":21581,"speaker":109,"num_words":21591,"start":18712,"end":18837},[21582,21584,21586,21588,21589],{"text":21583,"start":18712,"end":18738},"Ich mein, wir sind auch nur 2 von den sonst üblichen 5.",{"text":21585,"start":18738,"end":18773},"Also ich weiß, die anderen so, Dave akut rausgattern, sonst üblichen Fünfer.",{"text":21587,"start":18773,"end":18824},"Also ich weiß, die anderen so, Dave akut raus, guddelt erst mal raus, Fabi Fragezeichen, was er grade tut.",{"text":1503,"start":18828,"end":18829},{"text":21590,"start":18831,"end":18837},"Also, schau.",46,{"sentences":21593,"speaker":109,"num_words":21603,"start":18837,"end":19002},[21594,21596,21598,21600,21601],{"text":21595,"start":18837,"end":18844},"Das stimmt.",{"text":21597,"start":18846,"end":18869},"Ich hab zum Abschluss noch 2 ganz kleine Punkte.",{"text":21599,"start":18869,"end":18983},"Der eine ist mir gestern Abend aufgefallen, und zwar gibt's eine neue Dokumentation von unseren Freunden bei CultureRIPO, die sich ja immer die Themen kümmern, wo Dennis jetzt sagt, das interessiert doch heute gar keinen mehr, wie mal son Framework irgendwie entstanden ist.",{"text":18988,"start":18983,"end":18985},{"text":21602,"start":18985,"end":19002},"Das muss man gar nicht mehr wissen.",62,{"sentences":21605,"speaker":109,"num_words":21032,"start":19002,"end":19028},[21606],{"text":21607,"start":19002,"end":19028},"Das reicht, wenn deine AI das weiß, wie man das benutzt.",{"sentences":21609,"speaker":88,"num_words":20655,"start":19031,"end":19045},[21610,21611],{"text":19034,"start":19031,"end":19032},{"text":21612,"start":19036,"end":19045},"Ja, erzähl's mir weiter.",{"sentences":21614,"speaker":109,"num_words":20542,"start":19045,"end":19054},[21615],{"text":21616,"start":19045,"end":19054},"Dann relativ ich",{"sentences":21618,"speaker":88,"num_words":20542,"start":19054,"end":19062},[21619],{"text":21620,"start":19054,"end":19062},"das noch mal.",{"sentences":21622,"speaker":109,"num_words":21452,"start":19062,"end":19274},[21623,21624,21625,21627,21629],{"text":1503,"start":19062,"end":19065},{"text":556,"start":19068,"end":19069},{"text":21626,"start":19069,"end":19105},"Auf alle Fälle, es geht in der aktuellen Doku Spring und Java.",{"text":21628,"start":19108,"end":19156},"Sie sprechen mit Rod Johnson und Jürgen Höller, die da so die die Köpfe hinter springen sind.",{"text":21630,"start":19156,"end":19274},"Und ich find das 'n sehr cooles Beispiel, weil viele von den Frameworks, die wir aktuell nutzen, wenn man an Lara Well denkt und auch viel, was grade in der No JS Welt passiert, die haben halt so ihre ihre Wurzeln im Springen, ja.",{"sentences":21632,"speaker":109,"num_words":20568,"start":19274,"end":19459},[21633,21635,21637,21639],{"text":21634,"start":19274,"end":19299},"Da sind irgendwie viele Konzepte das erste Mal richtig gedacht worden.",{"text":21636,"start":19303,"end":19338},"Inversion of Control, Dependency Injection, Model View Controller bla bla bla.",{"text":21638,"start":19341,"end":19426},"Von daher, wenn man sich einfach dafür interessiert, warum manche Frameworkentscheidungen so getroffen worden sind, wie sie getroffen worden sind, was der Hintergrund war, warum das notwendig war, Sehr coole Doku, kann ich nur empfehlen.",{"text":21640,"start":19426,"end":19459},"Und bevor ich meinen zweiten Punkt mach, darf Dennis jetzt noch was dazu sagen?",{"sentences":21642,"speaker":88,"num_words":21651,"start":19463,"end":19576},[21643,21645,21646,21647,21649],{"text":21644,"start":19463,"end":19496},"Mein erster Impuls war auch direkt mir jetzt mal so innerlich so.",{"text":19501,"start":19496,"end":19499},{"text":19507,"start":19499,"end":19504},{"text":21648,"start":19510,"end":19523},"Wurzel braucht's ja nicht mehr.",{"text":21650,"start":19526,"end":19576},"Aber ich mein, ist es ja, wie Du schon sagst, sone Dokumentation über, ne, wie wir's entstanden oder so.",38,{"sentences":21653,"speaker":88,"num_words":21328,"start":19576,"end":19782},[21654,21656,21658,21660],{"text":21655,"start":19576,"end":19617},"Das das finde ich, hat noch eine Relevanz und ist interessant, wie so Dinge entstanden werden sind.",{"text":21657,"start":19617,"end":19685},"Und ja, die gibt es vielleicht zu einem Framework nicht mehr in 5 Jahren, sondern dann eben halt, wieso hat sich Cloud so entwickelt, wie's sich entwickelt hat oder so?",{"text":21659,"start":19688,"end":19761},"Das wird sich anpassen, aber ja, die die Relevanz oder interessant kann ich's mir trotzdem vorstellen, auch wenn Du heute dich nicht mehr von Spring inspirieren lässt, 'n neues Framework zu bauen.",{"text":21661,"start":19761,"end":19782},"Und auch die Leute gibt es ja noch zurecht.",{"sentences":21663,"speaker":109,"num_words":20822,"start":19785,"end":19994},[21664,21665,21666,21668,21670],{"text":1503,"start":19785,"end":19786},{"text":11231,"start":19789,"end":19790},{"text":21667,"start":19790,"end":19807},"Das dazu würd ich auch so unterschreiben.",{"text":21669,"start":19810,"end":19830},"Und mein zweiter Punkt ist eigentlich mehr son Aufruf.",{"text":21671,"start":19830,"end":19994},"Wir haben, ich weiß gar nicht, mit wem hier beim Mittagessen vor 'n paar Wochen son Quatsch und haben son bisschen darüber gesprochen oder beim Meet-up, wie eigentlich so akademische Ausbildung von Informatikerinnen grade aussieht in in Zeiten von AI und haben da son bisschen philosophiert, was es denn da braucht und was da funktioniert und was da vielleicht nicht funktionieren könnte und ne.",{"sentences":21673,"speaker":109,"num_words":21683,"start":19994,"end":20378},[21674,21676,21678,21680,21682],{"text":21675,"start":19994,"end":20133},"Also wie finden auch junge Menschen irgendwie 'n Weg jetzt in diesen Arbeitsmarkt rein, wo sie vielleicht als, überspitzt gesagt, als Junior darf nicht gebraucht werden, weil jedes LLM ähnlich gut schon funktioniert, ja, ob man das an sich jetzt zahlt oder nicht, sei mal dahingestellt, aber das ist ja so die große Sorge.",{"text":21677,"start":20136,"end":20208},"Und da würde ich unglaublich gerne mal mit jemandem darüber reden, der vielleicht an der Uni arbeitet und da irgendwie für Kurse verantwortlich ist, da Dozent ist, whatever.",{"text":21679,"start":20208,"end":20343},"Wenn ihr da jemanden kennt, der da entweder sehr engagiert ist und vielleicht gerne darüber reden will oder selber so jemand seid, dann schickt uns doch gerne mal eine E-Mail an Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar, weil ich glaube, das wär 'n super spannendes Gespräch und auch superwertvoll für viele Leute da draußen.",{"text":21681,"start":20346,"end":20375},"Das nur als kleiner Aufruf und damit sind wir schon fertig für heute.",{"text":20379,"start":20375,"end":20378},149,{"sentences":21685,"speaker":109,"num_words":21693,"start":20378,"end":20510},[21686,21688,21689,21691],{"text":21687,"start":20378,"end":20419},"Entspannte 40 Minuten zu zweit, wie immer, Dennis und ich bin besonders schnell.",{"text":20379,"start":20422,"end":20423},{"text":21690,"start":20423,"end":20492},"Und jetzt kümmern wir uns ganz schnell wieder unser AI Week Projekt und wünschen euch eine schöne Restwoche, schöne Feiertag und wir hören uns nächste Woche wieder.",{"text":21692,"start":20495,"end":20510},"Bis denn Mach's doch.",45,{"sentences":21695,"speaker":88,"num_words":20542,"start":20510,"end":20524},[21696,21698],{"text":21697,"start":20510,"end":20520},"Vielen Dank.",{"text":20526,"start":20520,"end":20524},[21700,21719,21740,21749,21775,21791,21821,21845,21854,21907,21911,21921,21973,21981,21987,22015,22030,22037,22044,22051,22057,22063,22080,22128,22132,22181,22190,22201,22222,22265,22274,22290,22299,22310,22314,22325,22333,22342,22350,22366,22381,22436,22450,22460,22491,22501,22528,22537,22544,22548,22567,22571,22606,22613,22647,22662,22708,22722,22728,22745,22779,22809,22844,22848,22852,22886,22906,22912,22943,22947,22976,23032,23039,23055,23083,23097,23108,23125,23129,23136,23140,23183,23187,23224,23236,23242,23267,23302,23328,23358,23362,23366,23375,23389,23410,23451,23462,23474,23503,23533,23540,23587,23615,23643,23655,23694,23712,23758,23774,23830,23839,23863,23891,23921,23984,24007,24046,24053,24065,24088,24099,24114,24133,24156,24160,24174,24187,24201,24213,24251,24274,24295,24305,24384,24420,24442,24460,24482,24490,24505,24534,24580,24621,24653,24660,24694,24708,24724,24735,24756,24769,24820,24850,24871,24889,24962,25006,25013,25048,25064,25074,25084,25095,25111,25123,25149,25156,25201,25221,25229,25247,25274,25281,25297,25318,25326,25333,25341,25354,25372,25446,25460,25474,25491,25558,25562,25585,25620,25640,25644,25705,25712,25722,25730,25737,25758,25770,25785,25793,25804,25817,25845,25856,25864,25870,25961,25993,26019,26059,26069,26075,26112,26122,26146,26227,26233,26237,26261,26276,26288,26341,26352,26361,26383,26405,26420,26429,26439,26456,26472,26484,26492,26503,26514,26540,26544,26565,26593,26607,26627,26673,26687,26719,26749,26753,26789,26814,26822,26838,26842,26856,26891,26899,26942,26957,26995,27014,27075,27084,27094,27141,27150,27172,27176,27184,27195,27205,27211,27241,27312,27346,27364,27374,27413,27420,27441,27469,27494,27510,27536,27542,27555,27561,27565,27587,27600,27606,27613,27628,27643,27655,27666,27697,27711,27740,27758,27765,27769,27782,27819,27823,27879,27932,27938,27949,27961,27984,28003,28027,28036,28085,28092,28104,28125,28137,28147,28169,28173,28190,28208,28222,28240,28253,28290,28300,28310,28314,28323,28330,28352,28386,28401,28417,28431,28443,28447,28476,28501,28544,28555,28568,28590,28612,28722,28726,28774,28784,28795,28812,28848,28863,28882,28898,28907,28922,28929,28936,28950,28979,28998,29017,29084,29091,29104,29108,29121,29133,29147,29161,29181,29193,29249,29269,29280,29284,29299,29306,29354,29363,29392,29396,29405,29421,29430,29442,29450,29462,29469,29477,29487,29494,29512,29527,29539,29549,29558,29583,29594,29610,29616,29633,29637,29646,29679,29707,29714,29754,29766,29780,29794,29798,29811,29815,29845,29863,29877,29891,29914,29927,29939,29943,29971,29981,30014,30207,30234,30276,30282,30286,30303,30307,30320,30335,30342,30346,30418,30426,30451,30474,30484,30488,30492,30500,30510,30532,30546,30592,30608,30623,30631,30662,30697,30718,30733,30787,30806,30817,30824,30838,30881,30907,30922,30953,30957,30970,30986,31015,31024,31032,31050,31090,31107,31150,31156,31217,31232,31264],{"start":106,"end":167,"confidence":21701,"channel":109,"transcript":21702,"words":21703,"speaker":109,"id":21718},0.9227411,"Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu 1 neuen Newsausgabe der Programmierbar, heute in Kalenderwoche 20,",[21704,21705,21706,21707,21708,21709,21710,21711,21712,21713,21714,21715,21716,21717],{"word":105,"start":106,"end":107,"confidence":108,"speaker":109,"speaker_confidence":110,"punctuated_word":111},{"word":113,"start":107,"end":114,"confidence":115,"speaker":109,"speaker_confidence":110,"punctuated_word":113},{"word":117,"start":114,"end":118,"confidence":119,"speaker":109,"speaker_confidence":110,"punctuated_word":117},{"word":121,"start":118,"end":122,"confidence":123,"speaker":109,"speaker_confidence":110,"punctuated_word":121},{"word":125,"start":122,"end":126,"confidence":127,"speaker":109,"speaker_confidence":128,"punctuated_word":125},{"word":80,"start":126,"end":130,"confidence":131,"speaker":109,"speaker_confidence":128,"punctuated_word":80},{"word":133,"start":130,"end":134,"confidence":135,"speaker":109,"speaker_confidence":128,"punctuated_word":133},{"word":137,"start":134,"end":138,"confidence":139,"speaker":109,"speaker_confidence":128,"punctuated_word":140},{"word":142,"start":143,"end":144,"confidence":131,"speaker":109,"speaker_confidence":128,"punctuated_word":142},{"word":146,"start":144,"end":147,"confidence":148,"speaker":109,"speaker_confidence":128,"punctuated_word":149},{"word":151,"start":152,"end":153,"confidence":119,"speaker":109,"speaker_confidence":128,"punctuated_word":151},{"word":155,"start":153,"end":156,"confidence":157,"speaker":109,"speaker_confidence":128,"punctuated_word":155},{"word":159,"start":160,"end":161,"confidence":162,"speaker":109,"speaker_confidence":128,"punctuated_word":163},{"word":165,"start":166,"end":167,"confidence":168,"speaker":109,"speaker_confidence":128,"punctuated_word":169},"e664b1e4-67e2-408e-894a-9cf792a64ea0",{"start":172,"end":223,"confidence":21720,"channel":109,"transcript":21721,"words":21722,"speaker":109,"id":21739},0.9338684,"26 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